Installation problem with seagrass paper

[Andree]

Hi!

:help:

Tried to install seagrass wallpaper for the first time today and the result is no good...

I have a painting decorating business and a friend of mine who is also in the business asked me to install seagrass wallpaper...neither one of us had ever installed it

We carefully followed manufacturer's instructions but with no success...

Walls were prepped and primed by customer

We just couldn't get bubbles out of paper once on the wall and paper wouldn't adhere, etc...instructions says not to wet paper but says to make sure to remove any glue from the face of paper? How?

It was a nightmare..results? Job is unfinished at the moment

Customer says they paid 800.00 CDN for 4 double roll!

I need help!:eek:

Tks

[Badams]

Hi!

:help:

Tried to install seagrass wallpaper for the first time today and the result is no good...

I have a painting decorating business and a friend of mine who is also in the business asked me to install seagrass wallpaper...neither one of us had ever installed it

We carefully followed manufacturer's instructions but with no success...

Walls were prepped and primed by customer

We just couldn't get bubbles out of paper once on the wall and paper wouldn't adhere, etc...instructions says not to wet paper but says to make sure to remove any glue from the face of paper? How?

It was a nightmare..results? Job is unfinished at the moment

Customer says they paid 800.00 CDN for 4 double roll!

I need help!:eek:

Tks
Details,more Details. Maybe some of the guild members are familiar with Seagrass but I am not sure you are not talking about what I call grasscloth. Who is the manufacturer? Is it a natural paper back weave? When they say do not wet ,are they talking about the facing?How did the customer prep and prime the walls? What did the manufacturer specify for priming? What type of adhesive was recommended and what did you use? How are you applying the product to the wall? If they paid 100cdn per roll, that has to be pretty delicate paper and handled with care, and not something a first-timer could expect to hang without difficulty. You might be able to get some detailed help with just a little more info.

[Andree]

Details,more Details. Maybe some of the guild members are familiar with Seagrass but I am not sure you are not talking about what I call grasscloth. Who is the manufacturer? Is it a natural paper back weave? When they say do not wet ,are they talking about the facing?How did the customer prep and prime the walls? What did the manufacturer specify for priming? What type of adhesive was recommended and what did you use? How are you applying the product to the wall? If they paid 100cdn per roll, that has to be pretty delicate paper and handled with care, and not something a first-timer could expect to hang without difficulty. You might be able to get some detailed help with just a little more info.


Seagrass part of the grasscloth but not as textured, it is what it is "seagrass".

It is a natural paper back weave and when they say not wet they mean the surface because it could alter the color of the natural finish...

Priming as in priming with a regular latex primer. We used , can't remember the brand, but coming from my Benjamin Moore supplier, I would consider a good quality wallpaper backing paste as per recommended by the paper manufacturer...

The customer is now looking for someone else to put the paper up but has been turned down by many due to the complications and price of the paper. No one around here want to touch it!

Can't give you anymore than this but thanks for your reply!;)

[henkenh]

I have been hanging paper for 20 years and never incountered a problem as with sea grass. How do you do corners and get it to bend. I am totally frustrated with this paper

[B Blanchard]

I'm not familiar with "sea grass" but have hung many types of grass cloth. My preferred method of dealing with outside corners (I assume that is what you are having trouble with) is to cut the paper on the corner. The remaining piece can be hung on the other side of the corner. It looks best to match up the strands to the first sheet.

If the corner isn't plumb you can hang the second sheet plumb, pull the first sheet away from the corner (if it hasn't dried) and trim the second sheet down the corner. Lay the first sheet back down, slide the second sheet over slightly just to get a tight corner and roll the sides of the corner with a seam roller.

If the corner is going to be subject to a lot of traffic you can rub some paste (even vov) into the fibers on the corner. When that is almost dry roll it down and the two sides will lock togerther. Caveat: do a test ahead of time to be sure that the paste won't stain the paper. I have had good luck with this method.

[Jeff Evans]

I've seen a lot of grasscloth/seagrass over the last 5 years. It seems that seagrass is just another generic term for grasscloth. There may be a difference in the two but I haven't discovered it.

You can hang the stuff without getting any paste or water on it by pasting the sheets and trimming them after pasting while they are booked. Paste the edges while staying just shy of the actual edge by a half inch or so. Fold/book the sheet, and align the edges parallel. Go for a long fold at the top and a short fold at the bottom. I like to sweep the sheet flat on the table, as that gives me more accurate measurements. This works with grasscloth, but not some tight weave textiles where the folds will show after it dries.

Allow the sheet to book, or wet out as long as you can without it freezing on you, and cut the first seam with your straightedge. Measure from that clean cut edge to the other side, determining how wide you want to make the sheet, and cut the next edge. BE SURE TO CUT THE SECOND EDGE ABSOLUTELY PARALLEL TO THE FIRST, or you're in for a long day. Measure not only on the ends, but in the middle in a couple of spots as well to check for parallel.

The benefits of this method are thus: 1. You wont need to wipe the paper of paste because you kept it all confined within the fold. You wont have any on your table to worry about smearing the paper because you stayed clear of the table. 2. You can customize the width of the sheets to have a balance of strip widths on the walls. 3. Getting parallel edges with grass paper is a tough job if you trim it dry. This solves that problem.

I have always hung a lot of grasscloth, even more lately, but I was never comfortable because I hadn't been introduced to this method. I'm always surprised at how folks hang it without trimming it. I've never met a seam I couldn't make better by trimming it, and plus, using the factory supplied edges limits you to the 36" widths, and takes away the opportunity to have the widths balance out on the wall. Plus, it wants to torque on you if you try trimming it dry, and you never know if you're cutting parallel.

With a stiff paper like this outside corners can be a problem. I like to wrap them unless they're so bad that it wont work. Even if they're out of plumb i wrap them. On the return end I will use a doublecutting pad, insert it under the sheet to protect the wall, and tape the face of the sheet with a low tack masking tape. I overlap the next sheet, plumbing it with a level, and carefully doublecut through and create a new seam. Now I'm back to level again, and the corner got wrapped.

Jeff

[Jeff Evans]

I forgot the adhesive issue. I usually like to use Dynamite 234 clear on my grass paper installs. It has good tack to lock down the seams. Sometimes, though, you need more open time and in this case I might switch to Roman's 838 clear. Some prefer Roman's 880, a good choice as well. Good luck.

Jeff

[henkenh]

I have hung grasscloth before. This is something different. It does not bend no matter how long I would put glue on the back. Also the fron is like sticks when you bend it it splinters (my hands are proof of that). I have never run into anything like this before.

[Jeff Evans]

That's bamboo you're having trouble with there, not seagrass or grasscloth. Forget wrapping anything (except your hands with bandages from the cuts), and when cutting up against detailed areas like moldings you will need to use a template.

This consists of hanging a thicker than normal wallcovering, such as some left over commercial vinyl, or heavy duty bridging liner, cutting it around the obstacles, and then laying it on the bamboo sheet and tracing the cuts. You will need heavy duty scissors or snips to cut the details out.

I just hung some in a pretty cut up bathroom, and I had to template 8' pieces. I used aircraft snips to cut it, but mine also was able to be trimmed on the table with SEVERAL passes of a blade and then snapping the paper in most places. I'm talking one layer, not booked.

On my outside corners I cut it, obviously, and used my snips to trim it as clean as I could. I don't think the stuff looks good enough to warrant all the trouble it causes, or the money we should be charging to hang it.:2cents:

[Dick Wilson]

Jeff,
I had to install some bamboo a few years ago in a game/bar room in a home. In the middle of the area was a fireplace and of course the chimney. It was like a big box in the room. That created 4 outside corners. An uncased doorway created 4 more o/s corners. And 2 more corners to another area of the room creating a total of 10 outside corners. There were 6 inside corners.

A carpenter friend of mine lent me his brake (used to bend aluminum for soffits and window casings etc.). For the outside corners I accurately measured, laid the bamboo face down on the brake and 'broke' the bamboo sticks creating a straight even o/s corner. Before leaving I 'touched' the corners with 120 sandpaper.

The inside corners were done similarly, accurate measurements etc. I clamped the bamboo in the brake and used a utility knife to score several passes until it cut through. I was fortunate that all but one of the corners were straight. I did template that corner and the mantle profile.

[Jeff Evans]

I hesitate to mention this because I'm not sure I can describe it accurately, but I used another additional method on the outside corners. I used a large Tajima snap off knife and cut the corner from the back side of the bamboo.

I took a strip of wood that was laying around the job site for backing, laid it on the face of the bamboo edge I was cutting into, and I cut the corner at an angle sort of like a miter. I did this after doing one side of the corner, and then followed on the second side when both were covered. You have to be careful to not cut too far into the bamboo, trying to stay flush with the corner.

The wood strip did two things; It protected my vulnerable hand from the Tajima (Think of the damage you could do with one of those!!), and it held down the bamboo so that I could get a good cut. I think we'll all be learning with this stuff for years, unless (fingers crossed) the fad goes away.

[bugsman1]

Is there any way you can post a pic of this material? I would like to see what the mil thickness is. Stand up a soda can next to a roll to give me a bit of scale to work with. Where are you located?

[Jeff Evans]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/LAhanger/Workpictures093.jpg

Here's the best I can do for you right now. This is KFI bamboo that I cut into squares and hung on a ceiling. I don't know what a picture is going to tell you, really. It looks similar to grasscloth for the most part, it's just that the horizontal fibers are really bamboo and very stiff. You'll know the stuff when you see it and try to hang it.

[Jeff Evans]

Dick,
That's a great idea with the brake, and it'll work if the corners are straight. As you know, they're not straight very often, and I had to template a lot of mine in that bathroom just to get the stuff to look ok in a corner. Lucky to have a friend like that, eh? You may need him again some day:eek: , better be nice to him:thumbup:

[Chris Nelson]

Jeff says" (fingers crossed) "
Just make sure you keep them intact:llama:

[Buff1]

It protected my vulnerable hand from the Tajima (Think of the damage you could do with one of those!!)

BTDT:lol:

[gadams]

Olfa knife?

[Jeff Evans]

With the large tajima knife, combined with the amount of pressure I was using, I'd say that cut on Buffy's hand would be mild if I slipped and got myself. That looks like it was a nasty one, though.

[Buff1]

With the large tajima knife, combined with the amount of pressure I was using, I'd say that cut on Buffy's hand would be mild if I slipped and got myself. That looks like it was a nasty one, though.

Yep, it smarted...especially when I got the bill from the ER.:cry:

I was squatting down as I trimmed an outside corner. I'm usually very diligent about retracting my blade after a cut, but this time I didn't. When I stood up, I lost my balance a little bit, staggered to regain it, and somehow the blade found me. I had my stuff all over the room, bleeding like a stuck pig, and the customer was not home. I couldn't just leave, so I packed it with paper towels, wrapped it in blue tape, straightened up the work area, and left a note saying, "Cut my hand, had to get to the ER, see ya tomorrow."

I was using a Stanley knife with the Tajima blades that have 15 snaps per blade, they come in a blue box, but I'm not sure what they're called. I get them from Dave Garnett.

[gadams]

Good old blue tape regular or safe release?

[Buff1]

Good old blue tape regular or safe release?

I think it was the regular, but I had so much paper towel packed in there, it really didn't make much difference. :roflmao:

The homeowner was/is the owner of our local Ace Hardware store where I buy most of my supplies...she was freaked out by my note and called me at home later that evening. This happened just before Thanksgiving, so it was in part concern for me, but also to make sure the job could be completed before the big day. When she actually saw my hand, she couldn't believe I had taken the time to straighten/clean up the work area before I left for the ER. Consequently, some complimentary tales have been told about this (hey, it's a small town), and I've received good referrals from this stupid mistake.:thumbup:

[gadams]

All joking aside ,glad you are all healed up and back at it.That type of work ethic and customer concern gives you one up on your competition and the customers do not forget it.

[henkenh]

I seem to understand how you do it now. Thanks alot. But I don't think I will every mess with it again. My hands are still recovering. But everything you have said makes sense. I would never charge the same amount to hang it again.

[Chris Murphy]

I would never charge the same amount to hang it again.

You got that right. I'm very careful about giving a price, material unseen; I just won't do it. But it's easy to get tripped up: for example, Seabrook labels all it's stuff "Grasscloth," even the very thick reeds and bamboos. Some of the goods are coming with more descriptive terms, like seagrass, arrowroot, Madagascar, sisal, but it can be impossible to give a fair price when presented with a small sample piece. The bamboos can easily demand $80-100/ single roll- the templating and special tools and techniques needed can take a l-o-n-g time to install the goods to their best advantage.