Need paste for grasscloth

[Kerry]

About six months ago I used Roman's Pro 888 to hang three rolls of vinyl backed grass cloth wallpaper in my TV room. The room looks swell and the paper is still clinging nicely.

My problem: I have to hang three more rolls and I cannot find a store on the Big Island of Hawaii (Hilo side) that carries paste. I'd prefer not to order through the local store that procured the last gallon, they charged $15 just for shipping the one gallon from Oahu. This leaves me two choices, to call around on Oahu, or to find a source of paste online. My preference would be to buy it online because shipping least expensive (slowest) surface-rate will be about the same.

I need 1 gallon of clear, water-based, stain resistant paste for vinyl backed grass cloth. Preferably Roman's Pro 888. It's a one step process that worked well.

I'm papering over 10-year-old latex flat paint.

Any suggestions?

Thank you,

Kerry

FWIW: For anyone interested in doing grass cloth. The one mistake I made was to take the first 8' from roll number one and paste it. I then cut the next 8' from the next 8' of the same roll and aligned it alongside the first. I then did the same for the last 8' of the same roll. Going from left to right on the wall, the first panel was from the top of the roll and the third panel was from the end of the roll. I have since found out that it would have matched better if I had taken the second 8' from a new roll and the third 8' from yet another new roll. Using this method, again from left to right. panel number one would be from the top of roll number one, panel number two would be from the top of roll number two and panel number three would be from the top of roll number three. Apparently when they manufacture the rolls the first part of each roll is more nearly the same color for each roll.

Grass cloth is quite thick and does not bend around outside corners easily due to some of the thick bamboo-like horizontal grasses used in the weaving. Inside corners posed no problems.

[Bill Archibald]

Using this method, again from left to right. panel number one would be from the top of roll number one, panel number two would be from the top of roll number two and panel number three would be from the top of roll number three. Apparently when they manufacture the rolls the first part of each roll is more nearly the same color for each roll.



Kerry, Quite interesting that you say this. It is the second time in my 30+ years at the wall that I have heard this philosophy, the first was from a potential customer just three weeks ago while I was taking measurements for an estimate. Apparently he had spent some time on the Internet getting all sorts of tips. Now, although I had never heard this before, I was not about to absolutely discount it, so I asked my chapter at a meeting the other week. No one else would support this practice, they all indicated it was not correct.

Where did you pick up this tidbit?

You have now caused me confusion.

-Bill

[Kerry]

I'm not sure where I got it but it sure made an impression on me, especially, since I read it before hanging and ignored the advice, and, when I noticed that adjacent panels were not well matched.

Kerry

[Kerry]

This might be where I got the information from:

http://www.creativewallcovering.com/article_howtohanggrasscloth.shtml

In any case, I can verify that the panels of grasscloth do not match when cut as I described above, the shade varies slightly from the beginning to the end of the roll. Perhaps it's just this manufacturer. I'm the only one who can tell. No one else looks that closely. I don't know if my suggestion works but I'll let you know once I find some paste.

Kerry

[Kerry]

I found out that Lowes, on the Kona side of the island, carries Roman's GH 80. The description on Roman's web site doesn't mention two key words, water based or clear or if it will work for vinyl backed grasscloth. Would this work for me?

epaint.com, an oneline store, sells Roman's 880 for $9.95/gal but cheapest shipping to 96778 is $43.00.

Thanks,

Kerry

[Bill Archibald]

Kerry,

I just checked a Roman product flyer. "GH-80 Premium Clear Strippable Wallcovering Adhesive" the rest of the description makes it "SOUND" like 880. I would suggest calling Roman and asking.

Water based? I'm not sure I understand. Do you know of a wallpaper paste that is solvent based?

I've never used GH-80 so can't really comment about it.

Have you thought about calling any professionals in your area and see where they get paste?
-Bill

[ProWallGuy]

Kerry, I suggest you fly me over, I'll hang the grass, and bring enough 880 for the both of us. Oh, BTW, how is the surf fishing this time of year? :banana:

[Jeff Evans]

Kerry- I'm up to my ears with grasscloth. Designers love the stuff here in LA. I've heard the theory about using sheets from different rolls like you mentioned and found no difference. As a matter of fact, any supposed theory about how to match grasscloth seems like hogwash to me since it's a natural product. Furthermore, it's part of the charm, supposedly, to see the shade difference. Having said that, the dramatic shading bothers me, and I try to eliminate as much as possible by matching panels before pasting and hanging them. Reversing every other sheet sometimes works also.


Jeff

[Boston Hangman]

As a matter of fact, any supposed theory about how to match grasscloth seems like hogwash to me since it's a natural product. Furthermore, it's part of the charm, supposedly, to see the shade difference. Having said that, the dramatic shading bothers me, and I try to eliminate as much as possible by matching panels before pasting and hanging them. Reversing every other sheet sometimes works also.


Jeff

Kerry

I have never heard of that method of cutting up the roll as a rule either.:confused:

I have heard of cutting up strips and shuffling on floor or large table to try and get the "least shading possible".
The most important thing when installing a product like this especially with a horizontal weave is balancing. Trimming the panels so they are of equal width across the whole wall. ie: all panels on a wall 11'(132") would be 33'' each.

Be flexible with widths if you get to a door or window and it is short an 1" or 2" short adjust , just don't be too rigid!
As for the paste I would do as suggested and call a professional or ask a knowledgable retailer at a reputable paint and decorating store for thoughts and if necessary list brands here and we could chime in.

For Gods sake, prep that flat latex you are begging for trouble :eek: going over that ...use a good quality wallcovering primer or Gardz or Draw tite if available.

Good Luck
Mark W.
Boston NGPP

p.s. Tim is too busy taking care of that newest child of his , I'll be happy to come down and put up the grasscloth..just send the ticket ;)

[Bill Archibald]

p.s. Tim is too busy taking care of that newest child of his , I'll be happy to come down and put up the grasscloth..just send the ticket ;)

Kerry,

And Mark is so busy with coaching daughter's soccer that he can't even make a Wednesday night meeting (that will be held on Monday :confused: :rolleyes: :lol: )

You'd better get someone in there whose family would LOVE to see him go on a busman's holiday .... ME (AND I have two 5's of 880 on hand) :banana:


-Bill

[Boston Hangman]

:cool:

touche' :lol:

[Chris Murphy]

I agree with Mark on shading and balancing, but hey- if anyone's gonna travel, it should be me.
Heck- you could hang the grass with cellulose, which comes in powdered form in a box weighing less than half a pound.
The NGPP has 2 members in the islands- Bill Jenkins and Ken Allen Rosene. Bill posts here occassionally (I'm suprised he hasn't jumped in), and both can be found through the Find a Paperhanger button on the site's front page: http://ngpp.org/zipcode/find.html

Contact one or both and ask where they get their supplies. Advice is usually free; psychological services due to DIY failure can be costly.

[B Blanchard]

Kerry, you said in your initial post that the wallpaper is a "vinyl backed grass cloth". Is it actually a vinyl imitation of grasscloth? Most real grasscloth is paper-backed. If you have a vinyl product don't use cellulose (I think Chris would agree). A clay or clear premix vinyl paste would work best. I'm not sure what Roman's Pro 888 is - did you 838 or 880? Either one of those will work fine.

[Bill Archibald]

Barry,

Many years ago, before joining the Guild, I hung a "grasscloth" that was backed with a brown vinyl or some kind of polymer. It was distributed by Summer Hill (of Calif). Actually the owner of the company was a good friend of the homeowner and insisted it was a "straw". I had to laugh at her. Straw IS a grass.

Anyway. the instructions were to dry hang. (they were quite good at explaining how to paste the wall, let tack-up, and then hang). This was when I was using GH-34 exclusively as my choice of pre-mixes. It did not have the tack strength to hold the material to the wall. I pasted the paper and had a good number of water stains.

Perhaps Kerry has a version of this. 880 would be a good choice.

Kerry, who manufactures/sells this paper.

-bill

[Chris Murphy]

Kerry, you said in your initial post that the wallpaper is a "vinyl backed grass cloth". Is it actually a vinyl imitation of grasscloth? Most real grasscloth is paper-backed. If you have a vinyl product don't use cellulose (I think Chris would agree). A clay or clear premix vinyl paste would work best. I'm not sure what Roman's Pro 888 is - did you 838 or 880? Either one of those will work fine.
Yes, sorry for missing that important part.

[Kerry]

All this time I thought the white backing was vinyl but it could very well be paper. In any case the grass is real, several different grasses both thick and thin with knots tying a few strands together, real nice looking.

The wallpaper, Natural Fibre Wall Coverings, Pattern YAN611, is from Asiana Wall Covering, Sacremento CA.

The instructions read: "...we recommend using a clear vinyl wallcovering paste." I had assumed that Asiana meant that the backing was vinyl. I hung the first three rolls using Roman's Pro 888 and it worked fine. In any case the store that sold me the paper told me to not use clay-based paste so that's why I was asking for water-based paste.

I'll be calling Roman's Tuesday and see what they say about GH-80. It might not cost that much more to call a paint store on the other islands and have them ship a gallon of 838, 880 or 888.

[Kerry]

The drama is over. I gave up and ordered 1 gal Roman Pro 888 from Carpet Isle, in Hilo, who ordered it from someone on Oahu. $25 for the paste and $25 for shipping it by barge. It's expected to arrive in about two weeks. Such is the cost of living in Hawaii. Still, I save on earmuffs and snow tires.

I'll use the time to prime the wall and let it dry. I'm doing something daring but I know it will turn out great. The grasscloth will be from the floor to 37" high up the wall and then paint the rest of the way to the ceiling. I'll have nice molding and wainscot chair-rail-like molding where the paint and paper meet—this solution came about because I only have 3 rolls left.:)

Thanks to everyone. The support here is simply remarkable, this from a professional communication skills coach-support group facilitator.

With aloha,

[Bill Archibald]

Kerry,

You are most welcome for the help and support. As you may infer, many of us in the NGPP are very interested in seeing that the job is done correctly and are willing to share our knowledge to that end. Yes, it is selfish in a way, because when people have a good experience with wallcoverings it helps the industry and us professionals hangers in the end.

One question I do have, I plugged your pattern number into decoratetoday.com data base and got this link (http://www.decoratetoday.com/products/wallpaper/product_detail.asp?prid=640945&ptn=YAN611&Scrm=0&si=5)

It shows a vertical weave. Most grass cloths are horizontal. Is the picture on this site a mistake, or is, in fact, your material a vertical weave?

BTW, I followed your link to the CSG. Very commendable project. Keep up the good work.

If you need more help, just ask.

-Bill

[Kerry]

Hi Bill,

The grasses lay horizontally. Their presentation is misleading.

Thanks for the ack about the project. The more votes people cast the easier it will be to present to the Superintendent of Prisons. A new public service TV station in town said they are interested, but that the three-hours every week time block is a bit much for them to schedule right now, perhaps when they get established.

Thanks,

[Jeff Evans]

Holy mackerel! $25 for a gallon of paste? Don't you mean a 5 gallon bucket? I sure hope so or I'm renting a boat and coming over there with a shipment. I'll sell you 2 gallons for the same price!

[Kerry]

That's twenty five dollars for one gallon. I think it's simply because they don't like to open a 4 gallon box and make a special carton and ship just one gallon. That was what was behind my futile search. Carpet Isle of Hilo charged the same amount one year ago.

Kerry