Wallpaper Glue Resduel Nightmare

[fanelda]

My vinyl wallpaper came off the previously painted walls without a problem. My husband had used wallpaper paste and a prepasted wallpaper to guarantee good adhesion. Now as I am using a steamer, 1:4 vinegar solution and a white scrubbie pad, the glue is coming off in some of the areas and exposed is the original yellow, but only in some areas. The glue color looks like it is a greenish yellow color next to the areas of paint I can see. I am beginning to panic since I have been working at least 4 hours and have little to show for the effort.

My questions: Should I just sand the wall to remove the thick glue then wash them down before painting??

Is there an easier way to remove the glue layers? I took photos if they can be viewed??? Thanks!

[Chris Nelson]

http://www.wallpaperinstaller.com/wallpaper_stripping.html

My questions: Should I just sand the wall to remove the thick glue then wash them down before painting??

I would use the method described in the link provided before attempting to sanding.You must really soak the paste with the removal solution and then you should be able to scrape it off using any number of tools.

[Bill Archibald]

Along with what Chris said (the link to the Schunk's site isn't loading properly for me), time is your ally.

Spray a large section and keep it wet for longer than you have patience :D
A garden type sprayer works really well - put it on a fine mist so as not to flood the walls and thus the floor. (Don't use a garden sprayer that ever had poison in it)

Obviously we have no idea what kind of paste he used - let's hope it's wallpaper paste and not some kind of floor mastic :eek:

If he used clay (which is usually a tanish color) it will take a lot more moisture than other pastes.

If you find the vinegar isn't working to your satisfaction, ammonia is a good household product for removing wallpaper paste.

If the household solutions aren't doing the trick, try something made especially for wallpaper removal. The vast majority of Guild members like Safe & Simple (http://safeandsimple.com/new/Main.htm)
# 603.

My next favorite is Strip+, but I haven't seen it for awhile, next would be DIF, and FAST brings up the rear.

Again, let it SOAK. Let the solution do the work, not your elbows and shoulders.

[HangingInThere]

Hard to say by your description just what exactly you're up against. Did your husband "size" the walls with clay? I agree with the comments on letting the solution work...

How I go about getting the bulk of the adhesive removed is with my broadknife once the solution is working. My broadknife is not just any ordinary 6" broadknife...it is razor sharp! :eek: I use it along with one of those el cheapo mud boxes. They work great for getting the adhesive off your broadknife...rather than continually washing it clean.

I don't know how much of this you have to do, but if there's plenty and it's a bit tedious, what I would suggest is getting a decent 6" broadknife...something like a Marshalltown. And, a knife sharpener. I prefer the ones that you actually have the knife facing you and you pull right down the face of it...with these, there's a part of the sharpener that protects your hand. I'm sorry, I don't have a link or photo.

New broadknifes have a "blunt" blade and work lousy for getting underneath wallcovering, and also don't work well for removing paste...they sorta bang into it. My broadknife has been stropped through years of abuse...I mean use, :rolleyes: and works well for both procedures.

The 6" broadknifes are pretty easy to control and lie pretty flat on the wall which helps not to make gouges...

The trick is to remove the bulk of the paste and then use something like a 3M sink scrubbing pad (I like the green ones). I use one of these to help getting the adhesive into suspension so that it can more readily be wiped off...

[Dr. Paper]

I agree, let the solution work. You can apply one of the cheap plastic dropcloths to the wall after spraying to retain moisture, and I like to add some absorbant material to the floor, i.e. newspaper, to catch the mess. After the adhesive softens, spray a small area, a workable area you can easily reach, scrubb with a 3-M (or similar) scrubb pad like you use for dishes. While still wet, use a rubber window cleaner to clean the wall, then sponge with clean water. Works for me.

[HangingInThere]

After reading the doctors prescription above for adhesive removal I thought I'd better add a warning label to my own therapy...

Depending on the amount of adhesive residue left on the wall, I normally view this at the minimum a two step procedure. Removal of the bulk of the paste is my initial goal. With any pre-mix, either clays or clear, my normal MO is not complete removal the first go-round. If there's an abundance, things can get messy-sloppy real quick.

No matter how you protect the floor, there's nothing glorious about overly wet paste running down your hands and forearms when working overhead. I've never read any paste advertising itself as "wash and wear." :(

Waiting for the solution to work is only part of the solution :rolleyes: . In my method, timing is absolutely critical after the solution has done its thing, and should be added to the warning label. My experience is that if you push the system it will truly wear on you :D in a very literal sense! Yes, softening the paste is the object, but call me a control freak :o ...I want the sticky goop adhering to my broadknife until I can get it to my mud box. If necessary, I will let the adhesive re-dry slightly to achieve the proper consistency.

Once the bulk of the adhesive is removed the scrubbing and washing procedures are easily doable.

So, usual Modus Operandi...Bulk paste removal, re-wet followed by scrubbing pad and two bucket wash and rinse cycle...if necessary one more rinse.

[fine paper hang]

Wall covering since 1983
You know removing the paste should be done but some times when you figure all the time needed and the mess
To remove old paste And many times end up with walls not so good any way I have found Broad knife the walls down a bit then resize with clay base adhesive this will refresh in the old paste
Now hang a nice bridging liner paper with same paste, the liner has a cost factor but if you are a good paper hanger this is very fast work and at least you know for sure the walls will be top notch , liner will not fall off!!

[HangingInThere]

resize with clay base adhesive this will refresh in the old pasteWell, maybe... It would be incumbent upon the installer to take into consideration that the VOC content of today's adhesives have changed our industry dramatically. In the situation you describe, it appears that you would be putting your faith in the integrity of the old adhesive and its "historical" bond to the substrate...

Let's say a substrate is determined to be sheetrock with a high quality oil primer...and been "up" 20 years. Remember...today's adhesives are not designed to work in conjunction with oil primers. Can today's adhesives still work with the "old" oil primers?? I'd be checking with my adhesive manufacturer...I doubt they'd be willing to accept the liability...too many variables. In fact, I've had this conversation with Ray Carden at Roman Decorating Products who advised me to wash the walls and prime with R-35 (acrylic based) given a very similar scenario.

So, if we trowel, or roll today's new adhesive formulations into an old adhesive formulation forming a "blended" adhesive substrate...is this a best case scenario?? It "probably" would work...but, personally, I'd wash and reprime...
You know removing the paste should be done;)

[Jeff Evans]

If you want to accelerate the fine tuning of a new broadknife, get a small piece of plate glass, or a marble counter top. Put a sheet of fine grit sand paper, like 400 or so, and hold the broadknife at the same angle you would while scraping a wall, all the while sharpening it on the sandpaper.

Like Glenn, my broadknife is scary sharp, but it got that way from using it on the wall. I'm looking forward to breaking in a new one using the method described. I just have to kill my old one first.:lol:

[Bill Archibald]

First, a welcome to fine paper hang, glad to have a new knowledgeable installer on board.

But, please allow me to disagree. In my 36 years of experience, it has always been most advantageous to remove ALL previous pastes before making some unknown slurry of old and new. If anything ever fails for whatever reason and pathology revels decades old paste was mixed in with new paste, I wonder who would accept responsibility for the failure. I do not see a cost, time, or quality advantage to "refresh" the old paste and then put a bridging liner over it. Sorry, I'm funny like that. I like starting from a tried, true, and sound surface.

And Jeff and Glenn, what are the advantages of a sharpened broad knife over a wallpaper stripping tool (blade) ? I only use a broad knife when stripping the easiest of substrates under those prepasted PBV's. You know, pull the vinyl off and all you got left is the toilet tissue backing. Wet it once and it practically falls off on it's own, the broadknife just makes it easier to bunch it up and toss in the trash bucket.

-Bill

[Chris Murphy]

It would be incumbent upon the installer to take into consideration that the VOC content of today's adhesives have changed our industry dramatically.

No, unh-uh. The primers have changed, in relation to their VOC content; this has resulted in alkyd primers having a denser structure and smoother 'face' that doesn't allow for a good mechanical bond that most pastes need. Paste VOC's consist of water vapor. That ain't changed.

I suppose you could go over old paste, add to it, whatever. But the time spent in stripping it would probably end up being spent explaining to the customer why the wallcovering had such a lousy, bumpy surface.

[fine paper hang]

I have to agree it is always best to do work by the book and I do
But some times when I was desperate for work I remember taking many unique chances to do those cheap jobs where a customer asked me to do the imposable like hang 20 rolls of paper over questionable surfaces for a very low price So for the better or worse of it I learned many tricks that do work but yes as a paper hanger you can get holding the bag Now that I am older I don‘t play games like that any more
What’s the point of being a hero and working for less money any way.
do more and get paid for it Thanks for pointing and reminding me to proper ways
Keith

[Jeff Evans]

Bill,
I rarely strip paper anymore, but when I did I also used a paper scraper like you do. I was merely digressing into how to sharpen a broadkniife. I use my broadknife to blade walls smooth, rather than sanding them if I can get away with it. I have an aversion to dust, and avoid it at all costs. A sharp broadknife is a huge advantage to have.

[Bill Archibald]

But some times when I was desperate for work I remember taking many unique chances to do those cheap jobs where a customer asked me to do the imposable like hang 20 rolls of paper over questionable surfaces for a very low price So for the better or worse of it I learned many tricks that do work


Oh Keith, don't remind me of those times when one is forced (yes, at gunpoint) to do what we know is SOOOOO wrong. :(

Last month I was forced to hang over two coats of paper that had been painted. The HO's have more money than God and are not at all shy about spending it, but for some reason the GC refused to even PRESENT to them my written explanation and recommendations for doing the job right. Yup, sometimes we gotta play the cards we are dealt in the best way possible.

I coulda played the Prima Donna and refused to do the job, but that don't put "money on the table" (quote courtesy of Dubya). The GC woulda found someone else willing to do it his way. Part of me does hope for massive failure as I have acceptance of responsibility in writing.

[Bill Archibald]

Bill,
I rarely strip paper anymore, but when I did I also used a paper scraper like you do. I was merely digressing into how to sharpen a broadkniife. I use my broadknife to blade walls smooth, rather than sanding them if I can get away with it. I have an aversion to dust, and avoid it at all costs. A sharp broadknife is a huge advantage to have.

ABSOLUTELY. Knife the walls smooth !!! We gots enough problems with dust. We don' wanna add no more.

I just thought you were also using the broadknife to strip. I thought I was gonna hafta refer you to one Mike Z on how to strip :devil:

Remind me to ask you who strips your walls and how you get them to do it correctly. That's a phone conversation, not one good for here.

[Jeff Evans]

It'd be a short conversation, because all it amounts to is that I haven't come across much removal lately. I have no qualms about doing it when I have the chance. Jeez, I'm not that much of a prima donna!:roflmao:

[HangingInThere]

No, unh-uh... Paste VOC's consist of water vapor.That I'll have to check with the higher authorities about...:D In the days of old, if I had some clay based adhesive that I let sit a spell, there would be an oil that would make its way to the surface. I seem to remember Ray Carden at Romans telling me that the clays had been put under the VOC microscope and needed to also clean up their act. The solvent based primers for sure have been dumbed down resulting in the molecular structure of the finished product being too dense... Sorry, what was I thinking...not dumbed down (shame on me)...they've been greened up! :D

[HangingInThere]

Like Glenn, my broadknife is scary sharp, but it got that way from using it on the wall. I'm looking forward to breaking in a new one using the method described. I just have to kill my old one first.:lol:I also use sandpaper...but after I do the initial "prime" with a knife sharpener. Actually, I've used a sanding block, almost like a whetstone.

Mine is like a pair of old comfortable jeans...I'm so used to it I'd have to go into mourning if something happened to it... :(

Why the broadknife vs. a stripping tool?? I find I have better...or should I say more immediate control. Once I have the proper angle locked in, I don't have to micro control with my wrist.

The biggy for me, though, is as Jeff points out..."scary sharp." Most folks when they grab a broadknife wind up banging that blunt edge against either the wallcovering or the paste. On some of the laminate papers, my broadknife can separate the facing from the backing eliminating the need to wait for the removal solution to initiate that part for me...

[Badams]

A sharp broadknife is a huge advantage to have.

Yeah, I have sliced a few oranges with mine, not to mention my thumb a couple of times.

[HangingInThere]

Yeah, I have sliced a few oranges with mine, not to mention my thumb a couple of times.On some papers where there's a tight inside corner to casing (e.g. 1-1 1/2")...I can set my lexan in the corner and run the side of my broadknife down the casing edge to set things...then, once more, same procedure with the lexan and broadknife...this time with the "scary sharp" edge against the casing and actually make the cut... :) Pins it and cuts it at the same time...such a deal... :D Oh, and in a pinch as Badams points out, it is great for cutting fruit too... ;)

[Bill Archibald]

Yeah, I have sliced a few oranges with mine, not to mention my thumb a couple of times.


Tell me about that. My broad knife has left my DNA on more than a few jobs. And when I used to keep it blade-up in my back pocket ......

Well I'm sure evryone has been there

Althouth I love the the 8" and even 10" broad knives, there is no place I can find to store them on my person without some sharp edge reaching out to do damage to body, wall, woodwork, or even furniture. I am forced to use a six inch that will fit blade-down in my tool belt.