Getting the word out...

[HangingInThere]

I believe our industry has taken definite hit which has impacted all of us...ultimately, financially. Granted, some of the downturn in roll numbers is due to changes in the decorating industry. In the majority of the large homes I tend to work in, where I'd be installing anywhere from 200-400 rolls, faux finishing has seriously declined my numbers. I'm not talking about sponge painting...

Anyway, where I'm going with this, has to do with either the results of ignorance or pure stupidity in our industry. I have heard said twice within the past week, "I'll never do wallpaper again!" This was said in frustration to the walls damaged in removal, the frustration of removal, and the frustration of bad intel regarding the proper preparation process for installing.

Okay. In my short tenure here at the NGPP I've read through some of the archives, and seen demonstrated by the active participants in the forums an individual and corporate knowledge of our industry that "desperately" needs further intrusion into the public domain.

The number of questions I've seen generated by the "public" looking for assistance is meager. I'm going to suggest that the NGPP use its resources to contact all retail paint outlets with its website and forum information.

I've got to run to work, but I wanted to invite some input and get the ball rolling... I see many of you seasoned vets visiting the forums daily with nothing new being generated for you to respond to, especially, from the public looking for information and assistance.

[Bill Archibald]

Glenn,

Now please do not take this wrong, but you do realize you are preaching to the choir.

So many of our Guild meetings and so much of our collective energy are directed at not only the cause of the decline in wallpaper sales but also ideas as to how to reverse the downward spiral. Obviously everyone has their pet theories for both cause and remediation. But that is what makes the NGPP great - there are many voices and we do not all march to the same drummer. There are many innovative ideas.

The numbers in sales decline from 1990 to the present are astounding - I am not going to post them here as I do not have the EXACT numbers and I do not want to do so in such a public forum. Good news is that commercial and high-end were not hit as hard and are the first to face recovery.

The industry has sponsored studies that point to certain reasons for the decline, paperhangers who are at the wall and listening to customers have different opinions. There are as many solutions offered as there are voices.

Now, does your idea have merit? I would not judge it worthiness until I saw some results from a trial. How would it be implemented ? - that's the big question.

I (again) would strongly suggest you join the NGPP and join with the others expending energy on the recovery. Being a lone wolf in these woods is not conducive to survival - join the pack and help us rule our destiny.

-Bill

[HangingInThere]

Bill,

I figured when I initiated this thread that a lot of what I was setting forth might indeed already have been hashed over by the Guild. Since I'm not privy to those discussions, I decided to just open a public discussion and see what came of it...

I would agree that a trial would be in order. It might be quite instructive to pick a state and see if the forum requests for assistance increase. Since the mods have access to IP locations it would be possible to monitor where the requests are coming from. I don't remember when registering if it was necessary to disclose my whereabouts.

Perhaps something like a counter "standee" with NGPP business cards, or brochures directing folks to the forums. It would be difficult to project whether there would be an impact in overall sales of wallpaper. I am of the persuasion that ignorance of even the DIYs about proper preparation procedures, and the resulting horror stories, have a cumulative effect. And, the old adage that bad news travels faster than good always comes into play.

I haven't thought this all through, but I would submit that if the NGPP became a household resource word...or, known as the final authority for troubleshooting, the effects would be cumulative.

Right now, the thrust appears to be join the club. I'm not averse to the idea, as I mentioned before, my priorities are elsewhere. I would submit that memberships will come, but the public needs to know that you exist and are willing to help no strings attached.

Granted, ultimately some folks who were looking at tackling a project by themselves might be dissuaded once they realize the proper mechanics. They might even decide to look up a Guild member...

[K.L. Conner]

faux finishing has seriously declined my numbers. I'm not talking about sponge painting...

I try to attend as many of the other organized groups ( ASID, IFDA and Home builders associations) as I can. I always make it a point to remind the designers how faux draws termites. Amazingly alot will listen with the look of concern on their faces.

I have been covering alot of faux as of late with paper and fabric. I hope that this is the beginning of a trend, but who knows.
K.L.

[gadams]

K.L,I think there is a trend toward less "Faux" or glazed walls to more wallpaper. I think it's faux burnout.It's still out there but Venetian plasters and similar finishes seem to be the bulk of it .There are alot of new wallpaper patterns and textures especially in the contemporary market that have excited designers. Granted some of them are decorative finishes on panels but they are wallpaper nevertheless. I have installed more grasscloth this past year than ever before. I know that over all wallpaper is down but I think the future is bright.

[HangingInThere]

K.L,I think there is a trend toward less "Faux" or glazed walls to more wallpaper. I think it's faux burnout.It's still out there but Venetian plasters and similar finishes seem to be the bulk of it.Guy, I'm hearing the same from my designers as far as the "Faux" finishes are concerned. One said, "I think we've gone about as far as we can with the faux finishes."

Your mention of the Venitian plasters seems to be where things are headed. I believe the pasterers don't even use the Faux word in their vocabulary...as they realize the possible negative connotations it can conjure up.

Here in Minneapolis, Hirschfields is pushing the pasters. They've teamed up with someone here who is teaching pastering courses. The salesmanship side of it is that it is "green," which of course is the buzz word today.

Again, part of the downtrend, in my humble opinion, is that designers have simply turned away from wallpaper. My work is primarily in high end residential. I did three houses in the Parade of Homes, all in the 2 Mil range and the total rollage on each was around 50-60. The bulk was a textured faux finish with multiple glazes. What ever remained was painted...mostly Ralph Lauren if I remember correctly...using specialty paints anyway.

Well...the thrust of the Guild, at least my first impression, was membership and continuing education of its members. I'm wondering if it might want to consider a more "public" persona emphasizing information and troubleshooting.

When I first got into the trade in 1980 my name was given out as a reference by my suppliers...along with 2 others. I would go measure and bid not knowing who I was up against. Could be another full-time professional, or a weekend warrior. I don't mean to be demeaning. My point is that I'd be trying to sell a "complete" package (i.e., a prep designed to facilitate future removal and an install). Others, I take it, weren't planning on being around in 5 years for repeat business... Perhaps, the presence of the Guild as a viable "help organization" would put its members at the top of the reference list...

[Chris Nelson]

Bill quotes"The numbers in sales decline from 1990 to the present are astounding - I am not going to post them here as I do not have the EXACT numbers and I do not want to do so in such a public forum."

Why not??:confused:

[K.L. Conner]

Whenever I am at the group design meetings and the term plaster finish comes up I always respond " you mean stucco". The vernacular of today consists of buzz words, stucco has a negative vibe. I also point out that textured finishes are trendy, ( another buzz word that designers hate) big in central Florida and remove that room from future improvement when the trend passes.

I have always been told that it all runs in cycles. However, the days of putting a hundred rolls in a spec house are over, which is good news. Spec homes should have never had paper in them in the first place, it cuts down on the builders market. I want in that house when the second or third owners move in.

Working close to home today which is rare.
K.L.

[Elsie Kapteina]

Your comments are good ones. The Guild is working very closely with our Associate Chair and the industry manufacturers, etc. to open doors of communication, bridging the gap between consumers, decorators, making the initiative on how important a "proper install" is to the growth of the industry.

In September, as similar to what happened in San Diego's convention last year, there was a very good open forum between manufacturers and installers, a lot of doors opened, and you will see some great initiatives being started shortly. It is a start and "change" is happening.

In my own area, there is a big swing back to wallcovering, and not your parents. Yes. It is all high end and you need to be on top of that curve. The NGPP again is working hard to insure that its members benefit from the education offered to grow their own potential.

May I suggest that you contact our home office and become a part of the solution. And, thank you for your comments; we are appreciative of all insights. e

[HangingInThere]

May I suggest that you contact our home office and become a part of the solution. And, thank you for your comments; we are appreciative of all insights. eI just received a call from the orphanage this past Friday and the glass for the atrium is on order. My roofing/glazing contractor friend and I will need to be travelling there soon to wrap the glass and complete the tile roof. I don't want to hijack the thread with my personal agenda, so I'll post a couple of links. Oh, and help is always needed! If anyone would like a vacation at the beach in Mexico, as Bob Barker used to say, "Come on Down!" There's a noticeable problem when you arrive with water, but we've got the beach...

http://www.tapestriesoflife.com

January 05 Orphanage trip (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showpost.php?p=218070&postcount=24)

January 07 Orphanage trip (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=54041&highlight=orphanage)

Back on topic. ;) NGGP Membership?? As you can see, other priorities at the moment.

For right now, it might be just as well to be having this discussion in an open forum. As I think Bill said, the guys at the wall often have different ideas. I certainly wouldn't want to discount the manufacturers and other "major players" in our industry, but there is absolutely, most definitely, postitively, something to be said about what the guys and gals in the trenches have to say. We're dealing with things at a grass roots level and feeling the immediate impact...on our wallets.

[HangingInThere]

I was dwelling on the idea...of some sort of standee tauting the, ease and accessability of posing questions to the Guild's professional installers. At the bottom, perhaps a card holder with NGPP business cards and Forum information.

These could possibly be placed by NGPP members but I would suggest that the actual installer placing the cards does not have their name prominent on the card...or, if at all (I would not!!). If approached as a purely educational resource I would think there would be no conflict of interest with other local installers (you don't want to go there!!).

Even having to join a forum to post a question can smack of a selling tactic. This would need to be addressed...purely an educational resource...no follow-ups!! Only a means of promoting our industry. The temptation to personalize and attempt to use the resource to draw business might be excruciatingly painful...However, don't go there!! I would submit that using the Guild to promote the industry will have its own positive side effects.

Look at the money major companies expend for "brand recognition." The NGPP doesn't need to pony up for brick and mortar establishements...they already exist. You'd be coming alongside to promote the existing...the brick and mortar is already trying to improve its sales...and you as a resource might help. NGPP volunteers are pretty much available 24/7 if they're stuck on what to do next... (okay, 24/7 might be pushing it...we have to work too! ;) )

Do not use the venue to promote NGPP installers!!!! If after posing questions, someone decides they don't want to tackle the job themselves...they're already visiting your site. ;) :2cents:


May I suggest that you contact our home office and become a part of the solution.I didn't know that I wasn't... :D:D Sorry Elsie I couldn't resist!!

Again, right now, I see the major focus of the NGPP as being memberships. Even the website is designed for the members, (i.e., local chapters, upcoming events, etc...). I would suggest a redesign of the Forum/Help aspect, prominent and easy to find... One ought not have to hunt through the website to find it...I felt like I did!

[Gary Lucas]

Glenn,

When you DO join NGPP, expect to be put to work immediately.:D


Gary Lucas C.P.
Website Committee Chair

[Bill Archibald]

Glenn,

I am a little reticent to outlay all the programs the NGPP has and has had to bring our existance to the consciousness of the public, as I do not have all the facts. Eslie and others who have been at the fore front of this are better knowing to give all the details, but believe me this is of prime importance to this organization.

I do know that we have in the past had cards and other literature distributed to local mom and pops for the wallpaper buying public to see and take home.

Also, you talk of this forum being more public orietated. This is a balancing act that the web committee is always in the process of figuing out and trying to implement. As a trade organzation (please, we are NOT a club) we obviously have a priorirty to serve our members. There has been a long standing question on how much we expend OUR energy and resourses on making the industry healthier. One answer is that obviously the healthier the industry the better it is for our members. But another perception is that the industry could do more for itself. The NGPP and the Wallcoverings Asociation (http://www.wallcoverings.org/) are closely connected and working on many possibilities.

There is a question of just how much do we orientate our web site and this BB toward the public. We, the web site committee, are trying to strike a balance between serving our members, the industry in general, and the general public. Will a handful of volunteers with businesses and families ever reach perfection in this endeavor? I doubt it, but we are trying.

At the moment we are tackling SEO (search engine optimzation) so that we will be better listed in all the search engines (we are competeing with "computer desktop WALLPAPER", btw)

We are also attempting to encourage more of our members to participate on this BB so that we not only have better communications between ourselves, but have many more installers answering the questions of the general public. Of the 600 - 700 NGPP members, there are just 17 who have posted over 100 times on this BB in the six or so years of its existance. (You can tell what I feel about using this venue :devil: )

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that what you are suggesting is very pertinent , well meaning, and on our minds, but it has no simple solutions. When I encourage you to join the NGPP I do so because I see someone who has good ideas and is not afraid to speak them (we need more like you). I also see some naivete on your part (PLEASE do not take that as an insult). But if you were part of us, you could better understand what we have tried and perhaps give fresh ideas and perspectives. This organization works best when people become involved and keep thinking of ways to reach common goals.

[HangingInThere]

At the moment we are tackling SEO (search engine optimzation) so that we will be better listed in all the search engines (we are competeing with "computer desktop WALLPAPER", btw)Before the advent of Google, SEO was definitely a unique and ever changing "art form" requiring constant supervision (and money). Today, my suggestion would be to research Google Ads if the NGPP hasn't done so already. :2cents:

I do know that we have in the past had cards and other literature distributed to local mom and pops for the wallpaper buying public to see and take home.Pushing the Guild...or its Help Forum??

I also see some naivete on your part (PLEASE do not take that as an insult).Naivete?? Perhaps. Ignorance for sure!! :D Indeed, I don't know what's been tried. My sphere of influence is pretty narrow here in Minneapolis as Fred G. Anderson went out of business, and Lathrop Paints was absorbed by Hirschfields. They are the major player locally in wallcovering sales...and distribution, as they warehouse for Genon and others. My "narrow" observation is that I've not seen anything Guild oriented, or help oriented in any of their facilities.

Hirschfields might be an interesting test market. They are the major player here in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Most of their stores are equipped with wallcovering sales areas. If approached that you're not trying to "sell" Guild memberships to installers, or advertising for work for your members, but looking to promote a sagging industry (that you believe has a lot to do with misinformation) through an informational help forum...we are your people!! Might be a nice symbiotic relationship. Perhaps it's already been tried...but again, what was the focus?? Memberships, promoting Guild installers??

Absolutely, there needs to be "real world" knowledge passed from us to the wallpaper manufacturers. I look at some of the stuff coming down the pike/pipe (your preference :rolleyes:) these days and have to ask myself, "Self, do you think that whoever came up with this stuff ever tried to install it? Did that flat wall they test hung this stuff on require a seam? Do ya think they tested it on an inside or outside corner? Do ya think this stuff is gonna be able to be cut around a door or window casing? Do ya think they even think? :furious:

Okay, back on topic... At the same time, the balancing act you refer to, I can be the best in my field. Fabrics, grass, Lincrusta, glass bead...I'm your person...yet I'm waiting for the phone to ring! :o While the wallpaper manufacturing industry is making adjustments...so am I...tightening my belt/budget. I would submit that this immediate help approach might be faster and more quickly intrusive (in a good sense) while the wallcovering industry readjusts. By the way, just what does strippable wallcovering mean?? On a scale of 1-10...

it has no simple solutionsFor sure if I knew all the answers I'd be bucking to get on Jeopardy (I mean questions :rolleyes:) and rolling in the dough! The orphanage cafeteria would be funded and the children would be home!! In a perfect world... ;)

Well, I submit for your cogitation the concept of promoting a purely informational wallcovering help forum sponsored by the NGPP. Manufacturers and retailers could advertise to support it...in fact, that might be a nice symbiotic relationship to ensure that your help forum is advertised at their establishments. Again, I see that you'd need to refrain from "directly" pushing Guild installers...have a link on the site.

My suspicion is that you'd get more of the registered Guild members paying attention and helping out on the website if they found that they were being contacted through the website...albeit an indirect result of setting out to help others...

If I may, an interesting principle is found in Luke 6:31-38, or what is perhaps more widely known as the "Golden Rule."

[Lee Epstein]

In case you are wondering wallpaper has declined between 50% and 75% over the last 20 years. The reasons are numerous. to mention a few; poor prep causing massive damage to walls upon removal, Joe's fly by night installs that look like it, ease of painting (they don't realize wallpaper lasts longer and for the most part cleans easier), and not least of all cost (initially it does cost more, but over the long run is cheaper as it last longer than a paint job.) On a commercial job when costs are escalating and the budget is at an end wallpaper is the first thing to go. As a professional group the best we can do is try to deal with the unprofessional installers. Pushing wallpaper as an alternative for decorating will fall on the manufacturers and decorators and architects. Manufacturers are reluctant to spend money on advertising (advertising is costly). That leaves decorators and architects and there only so many of them. We in New York have been discussing targeting these groups. It is extremely difficult to get them to listen to us. They know everything better than everybody else because they read it in a book in school. We have only dedicated our lives to our trade. But if anyone has a good idea we are always open to listening. And if it makes sense, trying it out.

[HangingInThere]

As a professional group the best we can do is try to deal with the unprofessional installers.Lee, it looks to me like we're talking the same language, if you also include in that group the DIYs. The professional "butchers" I would submit don't want help, 'cause they don't need it...in their "unprofessional" opinion! :D The majority of the DIYs I would suspect view installing wallpaper very similar to the way I look at many new undertakings...most are not rocket science, I just need access to the pertinent information.

By your process of elimination, and my elimination of the "unprofessional" installers (as know-it-all butchers ;) )...it would appear we're down to the DIYs. Some of which are confident enough that if they have guidance...they can do it. Others are testing the waters...they want to know if what's being asked is more than they care to tackle, either mechanically, or time wise. It is this group I would suspect that searches for installers will ultimately come from...

[gadams]

I don't suspect much high end would come from this but I say give the DIY'ers all the rope,' er I mean info ,they want.From what I have seen in the 1&1/2 years I have been a member,that's exactly what transpires here on this bulletin board.Now occasionally, It is requested that a DIY'er not even try(depends on the product) and to look up a member in there area. "Let me see this glassbead doesn't look to complicated" Be my guest sir.

[HangingInThere]

Guy, it appears your experience parallels my theory. The majority of DIYs figure with proper information they can handle the install. They're not gonna come a 'nockin for more than intel. My father is a good example. I was living in Denver at the time and walked him through some installs he wanted to do. He did an excellent job! However, he definitely would not want to quit his day job! LOL Each room took him forever...but he picked some mechanically sound products and he had me as a resource if there was a question or problem.

It might be only a handlful of the DIYs that actually ask for referral to an installer, but there's more to the picture... (Okay, I would concede that there's a few "bone heads" who might want to tackle something completely out of their league...however, if they're headed to one of "those" products, I suspect they've the funds to have it done for them. ;) )

If the DIYs are successful and perform "admirably," they become a high probability spokesperson for wallcovering. As in most sales oriented industries...it's a numbers game. My contention is that the side effects of contented DIY installers gives the wallcovering industry a boost...

More exposure ultimately results in increased traffic to the Guide forum...more good will, more referrals...more happy results... :2thumbs:

[Chris Murphy]

The figure cited a few years back (2002?) was the industry's gross sales went down 80% since 1980.
Like others, I like Glen's energy- he sure can type, no?
Me, I think you're barking up the wrong tree: the mass market was killed by the mass marketers, i.e., the formerly 'big' names in wallpaper. They made a lousy product, and the buying public has rejected it, resoundingly. Pre-pasted, mixed-synthetic pulp and paper-backed vinyl are two of the worst products in capitalist history; throw in stagnant design, and hopefully they can think of another cheap fix to kill it completely (because I do not want to see the stuff again, if possible). Commercial vinyl does perform as advertised, although the 'mold scare' of a few years ago almost got that segment, too.
'Non-wovens' could be part of a semi-resurrection, but they do not hold up to moisture, so those kitchens and baths that my customers have me put grass & English papers in (despite my disclaimer) still don't have an answer. VWC is moisture resistant (not moisture-proof) but does not often have a look that satisfies customers (no argument from me there, either).
What the 'industry' needs is a new line of products, not made of vinyl (or coated with it, either), good to great design.
Don't even begin to worry about DIY: that segment of any home improvement product is very small. We try to cultivate an appreciation for wallcoverings, their design & cost effectiveness, and so the openness on the BB fills that purpose. Getting the word out to retailers would be pretty easy: there's hardly any of them left.
Sorry to not look for space on the bandwagon, but I came into the Guild with pretty lofty ideas, and bounced a few off an experienced hand. The advice he gave me was, sure, share what you know, but keep an eye out for your own business, because the forces at play are larger than a little enthusiasm can conquer.

[HangingInThere]

Me, I think you're barking up the wrong tree:Chris, I'm having difficulty isolating your disagreement. Is your point that the products themselves are currently so inferior that promotion of the industry would be futile??
Don't even begin to worry about DIY: that segment of any home improvement product is very small.I plead ignorance as to what portion of residential wallcovering sales would be attributed to the DIY. The industry certainly focused its attention their direction with the advent and seeming proliferation of prepasted papers. However, it does appear, as you mention, that it is this group that the forums' attentions are directed.

As Lee said earlier, the architects and designers don't want to listen to us. I would agree, their agenda is very much determined by current trends. Also, it is more than likely that if someone can afford the services of a designer they aren't going to by a DIY installer.
Sorry to not look for space on the bandwagonHmmm...I'm not quite sure how this applies... By observation, I'd consider you a regular here on the forums, always ready and willing to offer advice. My ramblings are not far fetched from what already is being accomplished...only to try and bring more traffic.
the forces at play are larger than a little enthusiasm can conquer.Yet, there is an enthusiasm present here on the forums that wields blows against the forces of ignorance. And, whether it's Guild members exchanging insights, or the DIYs gaining valuable information...it sure appears to me there's some conquering going down... ;)

It may sometimes not seem like much, but it reminds me of the answer to the question, "How do you eat an elephant?" "One bite at a time!" The good will of the forums is cumulative...that I believe. Helping is a good thing...

[Chris Murphy]

Chris, I'm having difficulty isolating your disagreement. Is your point that the products themselves are currently so inferior that promotion of the industry would be futile??Not futile, but darn difficult. When I get asked, what good products are out thee for kitchens & baths, I try to change the subject to ventilation. When asked wher to by wallcoverings, there is 1 (one) place I can send them.

You'd think a place like Atlanta could support more than one store. And it surely could, if there were good product to sell. What should be more common, Lamborghini dealers or wallpaper stores? There's 2 (two) places I know of to buy a Diablo.

Where I agree with you is that I also think there is more that the Guild should do to 'expand its brand,' much more. There is more we could do in a lot of areas. We could use some help, too. I undertand you have other interests, particularly the charitable ones, and I commend you for that. Many of us also spend time & money on similar things. At $225 for a membership in an area that has a chapter, our rates aren't starving kids anywhere. Check out the local listing: Twin Cities Metro Chapter
Steven Ocel
Blaine, MN
(763) 442-9861
stevespaper@yahoo.com
Meetings held on the 3rd Wednesday of every month.

[eftheriot]

Glenn,

You mentioned wallpaper removal nightmares as a reason for declining wallpaper popularity and I agree. And I agree that proper wall preparation is a must.

From my recent experiences, the consumer also has to be educated that successful, minimal damage, wallpaper removal can often be achieved by having an experienced person doing the removal. I have started to concentrate more and have been getting more calls for removal only jobs, people that want to do away with the wallpaper and texture and paint.

For example, I recently gave a women an estimate for removal in her large breakfast room and kitchen. A few weeks later she called me and told me she wanted me to do the job. When I went to her house to do it, there was one room in the breakfast area where someone had RIPPED the wallpaper off the wall, with the resulting severe damage to the walls. I asked her what happened and she told me that the painters she had hired to paint the inside of the house told her that she was wasting her money getting me to do the job, all wallpaper removal caused wall damage. Her painters just stuck a broadknife under an edge (and under the top layer of drywall paper) and started pulling. Luckily she was home, and stopped them when she saw the severe damage that was being caused. That's when she called me. I removed the rest of the wallpaper with minimal wall damage. Boy, I was her hero. Glenn, the painters and drywallers don't even try to remove the wallpaper so as to minimize damage. They look at it as a way for them to make more money. They rip up the walls and then charge the consumer for the wall repairs. I can site a few other horror stories like this, including one where a drywall contracter talked a lady into completely ripping out the drywall and installing new drywall because the wallpaper removal was causing damage. To the tune of $4000.00.

Since my experience with the breakfast room, I've been thinking about composing a handout about wallpaper removal to give out with my removal estimates to try to educate them that minimal damage removals can be achieved with hiring an experienced remover. The expense and mess of completly skimming walls can very often be avoided.

So, as important as wall prep is, when it comes time for removal, that horse is already out the barn. So, consumers have to be educated that removals can be done successfully.

Earl Theriot
New Orleans

[HangingInThere]

Earl,

Elequently put!!!

Unfortunately, in every trade...there are shysters! Wow, the $4000 rip-off is a downright criminal offense!


From my recent experiences, the consumer also has to be educated that successful, minimal damage, wallpaper removal can often be achieved by having an experienced person doing the removal.

Proper removal definitely has too many variables to cover adequately by reading the directions on a bottle of DIF... This is one area where the DIY is going to be sorely challenged. If directions are followed and removal turns out to be a breeze...somebody ought to quickly run out and buy a lottery ticket...'cause this is definitely somebody's lucky day...

For the most part, only experience can properly prepare one for the "Twilight Zone" of wallcovering removal, and even then, there's no telling what might jump out at you! :eek: This, indeed, might be one area where the DIY could be in over their heads if things don't go smoothly when following "standard" removal procedures.

[HangingInThere]

You'd think a place like Atlanta could support more than one store. And it surely could, if there were good product to sell. What should be more common, Lamborghini dealers or wallpaper stores? There's 2 (two) places I know of to buy a Diablo.Probably the results of the already conceded, designer apathy, maligning due to improperly prepared substrates, manufacturing malfeasance, product ignorance, stupidity, and.....wait for it..............800 numbers (My own special pet peeve). What do they do with those defective rolls they want me to return for credit??

[Chris Murphy]

What do they do with those defective rolls they want me to return for credit??

The motto I've heard is, "Keep sending it out 'til it don't come back."

You better get to that meeting, hoss :deadhorse:

[Rusty]

The motto I've heard is, "Keep sending it out 'til it don't come back."

You better get to that meeting, hoss :deadhorse:


One time I was hanging a material that was bought at chain wallpaper store,that started to shade.So I stop hanging and call the store. The owner comes out and looks at the material on the walls and ask me if I had cut up all the wallpaper.I said yes I did.He then ask me to step out side to talk.Soon as we walk out the door :furious: he was furious that I had cut up the material.He said that I was in the wrong and that I should have only cut three sheets.Installed the three sheets inspected them then go back to my table to cut the rest of the room up.Next time I would have to buy the replacement wallpaper.I asked why?If the material is bad it should not make a difference.I then told him the I did my pet crabs and everything was right at that point.He had no i deal what I was talking about.Then I said the only reason he did not want me to cut up the material was because he wanted to put it back on the shelf to resale.At that point he walked off got in his car and left.

As we see wallpaper come back.We will see the mass marketers.We can only hope that they will listen to the paperhangers about substrates and wall prep to make wallpaper a good experience.Rusty

[HangingInThere]

One time I was hanging a material that was bought at chain wallpaper store...Rusty, even though it was a bad experience, at least you were talking face to face with someone. Those poor folks who order on the 800 numbers and run into trouble...another bad rap for wallpaper I'm afraid!


You better get to that meeting, hoss :deadhorse: Got it marked on my calendar, Little Joe! :D

[Jeff Evans]

I then told him the I did my pet crabs and everything was right at that point.He had no i deal what I was talking about.

Now Rusty...let me save you from yourself a little here! Unless you attended (you), or were trained by someone who attended (me) the USSPP, a person wont know what the heck pet crabs are.:roflmao: You've just scared the bejeepers out of half the readership of the BB!

Stan Warshaw apparently liked using acronyms. EEPAH, and PET CRABS stood for a system of checking materials, and the order of work on the job site. The former stood for: Estimate, engineer, preparation, adhesive, and hanging.

The latter is a little more fuzzy, so maybe you can fill in the blanks where I miss one.
P= Pattern and run #'s correct
E= Eye the pattern match
T= Trim by the factory, as in check it for consistency

C= Consistency of repeat
R= " " " roll width
A= ?
B= Check for bias of pattern
S= ?

As for that Scheister store owner, my stock line has always been in that situation: "Who cares if I cut it up. What are you going to do, sell it to some other sucker?" Saying that loud and with authority usually makes said weasel shrink with shame and order an immediate refund.:thumbup:

[Rusty]

I give it a try.I have moved so much that I have lost all my books from school.

P-Pattern and run
E-eye the pattern match
T-trim width consistancy

C-check for consistancy of pattern
R-Rejestry of color
A-and
B-check for bias of pattern
S- shading


I could see how it could be taken wrong.:devil: I just had to put it out there to see if any of the Warshaw Warrior would catch it.Rusty

PS I just look this way. I am really a good guy!

[Jeff Evans]

It's interesting, Rusty, that I seem to be the only one besides you that has heard of the Pet Crabs acronym. Although I didn't attend the school, I got a steady dose of Stan from my mentor, who went there in the 70's some time. He copied everything he got from the school and gave it to me. He told me stories all the time about him to the point I feel like I know him too. And for some odd reason, I imagine his voice sounding like Lawrence Welk. I've been told, however, that he didn't sound like that. Sure makes a comical mental image for me, though.:roflmao:

[Chris Murphy]

I had to get another copy of "No Molasses in the Wheat Paste," but I still have my notes. I remember EEPAH, but no mention of PETCRABS, nor do I remember the acronym. But I remember the concepts and the steps of inspection.
I've got a picture somewhere- maybe it's that 2nd edition of the book, where Stan is shown with a goatee. Looks like it was drawn on, poor guy.