Hows Business?

[upthewall]

I just now joined this forum, but I have been a paperhanger for twenty nine years. I was just curious how business is for the rest of you throughout the country. I am in Florida and have been lucky enough to stay fairly steady, but I know many of my fellow hangers are struggling. I hit a slow patch at the end of last year, but my January has seemed to pick up. I am hoping it is a trend.

[Jeff Evans]

Although I'm still working steadily I've noticed a change. If it wasn't for the ultra high end, and a few designers that still have stuff going for me, I'd be slow.

Last year I would get 2-3 new calls a day, and I was always too tied up with designer jobs to take on new work. Being too swamped to take almost all of those jobs meant I didn't get an opportunity to make even more contacts. Towards the end of last year I noticed days going by without those new calls coming in- a bad sign of things to come.

I've also gotten a couple of clients who have questioned my pricing after submitting bids recently, which, despite the fact I charge what I think is a lot of money, wasn't happening before. So the handwriting's on the wall for sure....

[Chris Nelson]

Dead here :cry:

[gadams]

Mine is an identical scenario to Jeff's.The calls were flooding in ,now maybe two or three a week ,if I'm lucky.End of the year was slow but picked back up in Jan..Did get a 70 yd striped fabric install yesterday(unbacked)AAHHH!!!!Maybe I can talk them into striped wallpaper instead.Talked with many designers ,and business is off for most as far as the big jobs go.Bits and pieces.They are definetly more price conscious.

[Buff1]

Dead here, too:banghead:

[Paul Sullivan]

I'm flooded with jobs..

..that were concieved when everything was still :coocoo:

[Boston Hangman]

working , but not like I am accustomed to by any means. I do have a couple of larger jobs in the future , but the phone is quiet and some folks are doing some tire kicking etc. :eek:

Jobs that were to be done are no longer being done:confused:

Tough times...but keeping the faith!:thumbup:

[Jim Seymour]

Work slow? Ha! I've hung 12 rolls and painted 3 rooms since Oct....wait, I touched up a water stain too. :cry:

[papernpaste]

If you want to get out the books and look up anyone who is working in the health care industries (doctors, dentists, nurses, etc) or lawyers, judges, etc., become pro-active; give them a "thank you" call and you may get lucky and get a new project. Everyone else is running, scared,having lost thirty percent of their stock market investments (or more). Even a Psychologist who just built the most oppulant 3-4 mil $ home and had picked out beautiful papers for many rooms is now holding off getting the work done...must have lost a LOT of money.

Farm the decorators and previous customers and don't be shy about reducing your "normal" fees, even if it is 10 or 15%. People like to know that you are trying to help them. At the rate at which sundries and paint are increasing, now is the best time to get projects completed. Lower demand causes reduced manufacturing. Less product is eventually going to drive prices up. Getting the job done, now, will be less expensive than a year from now...if it will even be affordable.

This time of year CAN be slow, anyway for some of us. It is the first January that I wasn't in the middle of a huge, multi-month job in about 5 years. Just don't freak out like so many are doing. Don't stick your head in the sand but, don't watch the nightly "news" which is 80% indoctrination and propaganda, either. Work smarter, a little slower, and much more contientiously...do your best work and maybe you'll get lucky like I did, yesterday. I told them $300 and got a check for $450!!! I must confess that is the biggest tip on a small job that I ever got.

Some weak kneed contractors are bailing out. So, there may be less competition. One thing is for sure, if you just sit on your posterior and think about how bad things are, they'll probably get worse. There isn't a damned thing that we can do about how broken things are in Washington. They are going to put the next generation into indentured servitude by printing more money to give away to their own special interests, whether we worry about it or not. So, hang on to your "tuckus" and try to keep the "wolves" away and, if it doesn't work for you, you can always go :coocoo:, while worrying about things you can't control.

When we were getting a daily diet of the increases at the pumps from the news media, I heard on only ONE occassion that, "based on suppy and demand the price of a barrel of oil SHOULD be $70 and, at that time, a barrel was $130. No one in the media ever bothered to investigate the issue. Later, (a couple of weeks ago on 60 Minutes), it was revealed that it was Wall Street, and specifically, Futures Speculators that had driven the price of oil up. Oh sure there were other issues...weather, Middle East tensions, etc. but, we have ALWAYS had those issues...for decades. So, because of the Greedy, we all suffered and the prices of anything and everything have "skyrocketed." Do you hear anything on the news about Congress regulating the financial industry or the investment industry? Of course not. They aren't pro-active in Washington...they're paid NOT to be by Big Business.
There are my 2 Cents.
Keep on Keeping on!

[HangingInThere]

Decorating my house vs. Putting food on my table

I'm afeared that during tough economic times, or even when an atmosphere of economic instability looms, our numbers are winding up on the bottom of the to-do lists. :(

I've heard the "we're going to put things on hold for a bit" more than I'd like to recently... I was wondering if my mortgage, gas, and electric companies would mind if I did likewise?? :2thumbs:

[upthewall]

I cannot help but think that times like these are what Darwinists refer to as evolution. If trends keep going as you all have shown, slow and scary, then only those who are well connected and have an extensive client base are going to survive. Wallpaper as an industry and as an art form has been around in different forms for centuries. It has weathered many economies and political climates, but yet here we are. My philosophy, so far, has been to do all I can at my usual prices. I will keep that up as long as possible. The definition of a depression includes the devaluation of goods and services. I think that if it does get to the point where we are cutting our prices just to stay busy we are also cutting our own throats. Once that boulder starts to roll down the hill there may be no stopping it. Granted, I too have a family to feed and will do whatever I have to get that done; but I will do so knowing the possible consequences.
From a strictly business perspective (heartless and with no conscience) we would all be better off if only the strong survive and supply, in the form of labor, stays in sinc with demand, in the form of those few jobs that still come to fruition. The Quality of the jobs will be higher (assuming that only good hangers will have work) and the industry as a whole would have a better chance to move forward as the economy starts to rebound.
I am no economist, but I certainly think entirely too much while staring at the wall all day.

[Rusty]

I have jobs booked for about four more months.After that who knows.My phone calls are slowing....The hotel business is booming here.Right now there is 28 new hotels going up.I want to say I never do hotels anymore,but experience has taught me to say.... never say never;).I may be glad that I did not sell my old pastewell. Rusty

[cgreene]

I had the slowest November and December ever. January started off slow also. Went on a lot of estimates but no call backs. The last couple of weeks some of the estimates are calling back and I have a school that is breaking that has been in the works for a long time. I have gone from no work to everything breaking at once. I have one high end store that refers me, but the jobs are of one accent wall verses the good old days when all the walls in the room were papered. That is not all bad, because the clients know they will still pay a min. day rate for the one wall. I feel fortunate that there is still the wealthy close by that the recession has not hit, that are still buying homes and/ or redecorating. The normal working class or middle class are not calling at all. Part of my work use to come from people buying or selling houses and that is not happening. Every block you drive down seems to have a bank owned house for sell. I am guessing my income will probably be half of what it has been in recent years.

[Paul Sullivan]

As bleak as it looks and feels from here, I see hope. One thing that is very much different from the last Bush recession ('90-'92), is that wallpaper is really very popular now. Just today I heard another young lady say, "I used to hate wallpaper but now it's back in style." (Oh, I really don't blame the Bushes, they just seem to deserve having their names on these things :sleepy;, but that's another story.)

Think of all the downsizers who might find a much more economical solution in wallpaper instead of the endless high-end accessorizing that only works on top of paint.

And what to speak, that if they *spend less* they might even *appreciate more*. At least I am trying to do that with my 1.5 pint bottle of Heineken per night.

[HangingInThere]

The normal working class or middle class are not calling at all. Part of my work use to come from people buying or selling houses and that is not happening. Every block you drive down seems to have a bank owned house for sell. I am guessing my income will probably be half of what it has been in recent years.I just heard yesterday that of the bank owned houses...only about 30% are currently on the market. If true, that would mean we're nowhere near out of the woods yet. :(

[ProWallGuy]

Slow here, but I'm still eating. I am getting geared up for more macaroni and bologna in the near future.
I'll be looking to whore myself out any day now.

[shelw]

November and December were downright scary, only working about half time, when I usually am running a 3 person crew. For January, I was booked for the entire month, February I am booked full but for only 3 days per week. I decided to take this slowdown to prepare for my next career (when I am physically unable to do this job anymore) so I'm going to school 2 days a week through May. I'm hoping Murphy's law takes effect and I will get busy since I'm only available 3 days/week!

[Jeff Evans]

Well, as I sit here and wait for a plumber to come fix my water heater, I get a spot of great news about an 18+ room house I bid late last year. I'd completely written it off since I wasn't getting a reply to email from the designer, who is in Connecticut. But she emailed me today and said we are on for late March. The best thing is, she wants to break up the job in sections, which means I will be free to take on other work as it comes in. But the phone is still quiet with other incoming calls. Thank goodness for designers....:thumbup:

[Chris Murphy]

I'll be looking to whore myself out any day now.

With your looks, bologna is ambitious.

[K.L. Conner]

I'll be looking to whore myself out any day now.


What does something like that go for?

[Chris Nelson]

With your looks, bologna is ambitious. :roflmao:

[LaRusso]

Hello everyone! Enjoyed all your comments and I know it is hard times.

First let me say I would love to kick that Murphy guys ass a few times ( Not you Chris) the other Murphy

We all know that this time of year is our down time, for most.

Here in the New York area, is also slow if that helps any of you feel better.

Being the RD of the Metro area I get to speak to a lot of installers, fist things first - When it gets tough, the tough get going. Sitting by phone and waiting for it to ring is not the answer.

We installers have called all our asscociates members of wallpaper in the NGPP and asked where is the projects (if any) we can go and bid on! Surprisingly they were very open to helping our needs and some of us are going down that avenue. Others are calling designers, whether they worked with them or not, it never hurts to keep on networking, especially when times are bad!

Installing wallpaper, through good times and the bad, through good Presidents of the good old U.S.A. and bad ones, I have been in business for 29 years and will continue to plug along through these times.

lets all hang together and we can laughed about this conversation down the road! How long is that road? :confused:

Vinny
Metro Regional Director

[Chris Murphy]

First let me say I would love to kick that Murphy guys ass a few times ( Not you Chris) the other Murphy

"Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong." That Murphy was an optimist.


]fist[/B] things first - When it gets tough, the tough get going.

What is it with you New Yorkers? Does everything have to be a fight?

[LaRusso]

Hello Chris, I always wondered how an installer of your quality has so much time to e-mail all day long.

I believe, now I could be wrong, which has been the case in the past, but if you spent as much time on the wall then on this or any other web site, call me crazy, but I think, just a thought you would be a very weathly man, in dollars that is.

Or maybe you have sooooo much money you don't need the wall!

K. L. do you agree?

Now does that sound like fighting words. I don't think so!

We here in New York are lovers not fighters! d:(

Chris you read or watch to much news!

Good e-mailing you'll

have a great day!

Vinny
Metro Regional Director

[Chris Murphy]

Hello Chris, I always wondered how an installer of your quality has so much time to e-mail all day long.

Vinny, my email was posted at 6:19 PM, after a day that started at 7:30 AM. You posted at 8:49 AM. Vinny, get your a__ moving and get to work, would you please? Life- and business- is passing you by. People don't like their contractors to saunter in at the crack of noon.

You can ask KL anything, but if it ain't football related, he may take a while to get back to you.

[K.L. Conner]

Or maybe you have sooooo much money you don't need the wall!

K. L. do you agree? ]

I'm with you Vinny, between Chris and Guy all of the high end jobs in Atlanta have already been spoken for. I make this point for everyone ( Mark) that is snowed in thinking that Atlanta has alot to offer.

Sadly, I am going to have to agree with Chris. The thought of being in front of a computer and not in front of a wall @ 8:30 am makes my chest hurt.

[Chris Murphy]

between Chris and Guy all of the high end jobs in Atlanta have already been spoken for.

Oh, yeah. Poor Guy struggles with a complex mural, and KL comes in the back door to do all the mega-profit baths.

Reminds me of a line from a Ry Cooder song: "I came in the front door, and heard the back door slam."

[gadams]

The way we were ,and are still ,required to jump through hoops on that job,I don't see how anything was mega profit.Plus I know how much he had to do them for ,to beat my bid.Plenty of work for all,besides it was good to see K.L.. and he was entering through the front door .

[Chris Murphy]

The way we were ,and are still ,required to jump through hoops on that job,I don't see how anything was mega profit.

Startin' to understand why I bid it the way I did, are ya?

[john forsyth]

Vinnie says:


We here in New York are lovers not fighters!


Hey LaRusso speak for youself! :bash: d:(


Things have been slow for the past few months. The suburbs are slow but there is some work to be had in Manhattan and in the Hampons (high end work). I think we're in for a long and hard recession. It ain't going to be pretty!


Johnnie "two strips" :D



Hello Chris, I always wondered how an installer of your quality has so much time to e-mail all day long.

I believe, now I could be wrong, which has been the case in the past, but if you spent as much time on the wall then on this or any other web site, call me crazy, but I think, just a thought you would be a very weathly man, in dollars that is.

Or maybe you have sooooo much money you don't need the wall!

K. L. do you agree?

Now does that sound like fighting words. I don't think so!

We here in New York are lovers not fighters! d:(

Chris you read or watch to much news!

Good e-mailing you'll

have a great day!

Vinny
Metro Regional Director

[Boston Hangman]

between Chris and Guy all of the high end jobs in Atlanta have already been spoken for. I make this point for everyone ( Mark) that is snowed in thinking that Atlanta has alot to offer.



noted ......but the snow is piling up faster than the work and as I tell my wife every winter, Georgia is looking mighty good . Now I am going to have to add LA LA Land since Evans seems to be getting more calls than Weight Watchers after January 1st .:tiphat:

[Chris Nelson]

Now I am going to have to add LA

Don't forget that it cost about a million dollars to do ANYTHING out there.:roflmao:

[K.L. Conner]

Georgia is looking mighty good .

You may be right I here Valdosta is wonderful this time of year

[NGPP Web Committee]

the political posts have been removed


Politics in any shape or form are not tolerated

Please be respectful and mindful of the community

thank you

[Jeff Evans]

THANK YOU!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::tiphat::tiphat::2thumbs ::2thumbs:

[Boston Hangman]

Georgia is looking mighty good .

You may be right I here Valdosta is wonderful this time of year

According to Wikipedia :Located in the far southern portion of the state, near the Florida line, it is a commercial center of South Georgia with numerous manufacturing plants. The surrounding area produces tobacco, naval stores, particularly turpentine, as well as pine lumber, and pulpwood. According to the Georgia Department of Community Affairs, Valdosta is called the "Naval Stores Capital of the World" because it supplies 80% of the world demand for naval stores.[5]

Moody Air Force Base is located nearby.

yeah , no thanks
The good times are just starting to roll up here anyway...I'll have to ride it out and see if these thrifty New Englanders will continue to give up some of their old money for wallpaper :)

[gadams]

Valdosta in the summer is like being on the Sahara,North Ga. is mo better.

[K.L. Conner]

Valdosta in the summer is like being on the Sahara,North Ga. is mo better.


Guy, get in the game, the last thing Atlanta needs is another quality installer. Besides I hear that a 24 hour Ebola is going around Atlanta right now, there is no vaccine, but a quart of boiled chitterlings seems to ward of the virus.

[gadams]

Uh yea ,That's right Mark, Valdosta is a beautiful place in the Spring,Summer,Fall and wonderful in the Winter and I hear they have some great showrooms:D.

[Boston Hangman]

Valdosta in the summer is like being on the Sahara,North Ga. is mo better.


Guy, get in the game, the last thing Atlanta needs is another quality installer. Besides I hear that a 24 hour Ebola is going around Atlanta right now, there is no vaccine, but a quart of boiled chitterlings seems to ward of the virus.

boiled chitterlings huh...sounds like something I would tie on the end of my fishin' pole ...
no worries I won't be moving there anytime soon.
My wife would rather freeze for 4 months than deal with Atlanta in the summer, nevermind Valdosta the toaster.;)

Heck it sounds like you're all over the rest of the country anyway KL

[Chris Murphy]

That's right, he's like South GA peanut butter, and just about as suspect.

[K.L. Conner]

boiled chitterlings huh...sounds like something I would tie on the end of my fishin' pole ...


Not even fish would sample those things.....well maybe carp.

[K.L. Conner]

Uh yea ,That's right Mark, Valdosta is a beautiful place in the Spring,Summer,Fall and wonderful in the Winter and I hear they have some great showrooms.


Don't forget Guy, it's also below the knat line.

[gadams]

Not even fish would sample those things.....well maybe carp.[/QUOTE]

Nope not even those old grungy carp( bugle mouth bass , Tennessee tarpon ) or old mud cats.:D

[My-T-Fine]

Interesting thread..It has a bit of everything in it.. Also interesting to know what parts of the country are doing better then others..I'm new here and have never ever worried about slowing down as I specialize in the yachting indusrty and different economies have never affected my business...I was fortunate enough to be able to pick and choose who I wanted to work for..I've never had to network myself...Phone always rang..Only about 5 people here that specialize in the marine business and theres always been enough for all of us..We all pass work on to eachother when we're swamped..I work for the richest people in the world and they have really slowed their spending. I would kill for some slow time in the past and must admit I'm enjoying it now as long as I don't have to go into my savings..Like some of you have said I'm getting by with enough to pay my bills but everything has really slowed down...Just need that one call I get every year thats like a $20,000 job for me on a yacht refit..I work for alot of the marinas, boatyards (new boats) and yacht interior designers but it seems the whole industry is on hold..So I'm picking up some residential (wallpaper not popular down here) in between my boats..I must admit having weekends and other days off is helping my back... See you guys around..

[Bill Archibald]

Interesting thread..It has a bit of everything in it.. Also interesting to know what parts of the country are doing better then others..I'm new here and have never ever worried about slowing down as I specialize in the yachting indusrty and different economies have never affected my business...I was fortunate enough to be able to pick and choose who I wanted to work for..I've never had to network myself...Phone always rang..Only about 5 people here that specialize in the marine business and theres always been enough for all of us..We all pass work on to eachother when we're swamped..I work for the richest people in the world and they have really slowed their spending. I would kill for some slow time in the past and must admit I'm enjoying it now as long as I don't have to go into my savings..Like some of you have said I'm getting by with enough to pay my bills but everything has really slowed down...Just need that one call I get every year thats like a $20,000 job for me on a yacht refit..I work for alot of the marinas, boatyards (new boats) and yacht interior designers but it seems the whole industry is on hold..So I'm picking up some residential (wallpaper not popular down here) in between my boats..I must admit having weekends and other days off is helping my back... See you guys around..

Peter,

welcome to The NGPP Wallpaper Forum.

I'm confused as to your connection with the wallcovering industry. Do you hang wallpaper in those yatchs? I know many of our members have had in the past questions about that.

-Bill

[My-T-Fine]

Peter,

welcome to The NGPP Wallpaper Forum.

I'm confused as to your connection with the wallcovering industry. Do you hang wallpaper in those yatchs? I know many of our members have had in the past questions about that.

-Bill

Sorry I confused you..Yes would be the answer...Yachts have alot of wallcoverings..They change hands so often that they are always changing the look of them..I've had some boats I've redone 5 times in 10 years lol..Also spent like 10 years lightening boats up when dark wood went out wallcoverings became a cheaper way of lightening the wood as opposed to bleaching the wood and varnishing sometimes like 18 coats..Happy to take any questions..It really is a different trade..Boats get hauled out all the time ...then no ac..150 degrees inside one day freezing cold the next..They expand and contract which has its own set of problems..The biggest difference besides pricing and the mindset that they will pay for perfection and the whole 'how many rolls can you hang in a day is out the window' is in the preparation. Your dealing with many different types of bulkheads. No drywall.. So you have to use different types of epoxy (for stress fractures) and auto body filler to fair them out as spackle won't cut it in a marine environment...Thanks for responding and if any of you ever come across a boat job please feel free to ask..I learned my trade on boats..Thanks..:thumbup: