Marketing and Promoting us

[Lillian]

This is in response to a question I answered on her blog..

Just an idea of promoting the Guild.
They are all over the internet wondering about wallpaper
I still say we are the best kept secret going..

http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/paula-grace-designs-inc-blog/11070f5bcf27c192f4f543174901cf30
I hope this comes through.
Lillian

[HangingInThere]

We have something here in Minneapolis called the "International Market Square" which houses a host of design firms, but also wallcovering and textile manufacturer's reps. I know there are similar venues in other major cities. I know the "IMS" produces a directory. I cannot remember if there was paid advertising, but I would highly suspect so since that would be another form of revenue.

Does the guild advertise in such venues??

[LaRusso]

Lillian you go girl and keep up the good work. Great job!

Hanginginthere thanks for all your support, it is nice to have visitors, such as yourself filling us in with information about our business.

All I ask of you is please spread the word in your area about our organization, if you haven't already.

Thanks again for the support,

Vincent J. LaRusso
Metro Regional Director

[master hanger]

Not to bust a bubble here, but lets get back to reality. You think any decorator, design house anywhere gives a rat's ass about NGPP? Don't get me wrong, I think this site and what I've read about the guild is great. You can thank Internet for that

The guild, from what I've read, started in the early 70's. Coincidence that was the hay-day for wall coverings? Particularly high end material with their high end problems. Our industry practically went into extinction, and now we may be crawling back.

However, it's beginning to seem like deja vu all over with the quality from suppliers. Instead of soliciting from them, or going on tours of their facilities, or even worst in my mind, having them give seminars and certifications, they should be held to the same standard as some the installers Without that we're only as good as the materials we're given.

BTW, I've never been asked if I was a member when calling a supplier with a material problem. Just the usual, "have I hung paper before" sort of BS. My suggestion would be to focus NGPP masses to that end.

Glad I have a lot less than more years in this. Don't think I'd do it again

[cgreene]

Question from Denice,none member,You think any decorator, design house anywhere gives a rat's ass about NGPP?

Yes I do. No they don't automatically ask the question. Are you a guild member? But if you tell them you are a member their attitude toward you changes dramatically. If they don't know of us, after you explain what we are all about they then will know/see you in a different light, and where to go for information. Our guild is given great respect in the field of decorating. It has taken a long time in getting that respect. Wallpapering instructions now recommend a NGPP hanger. When a manufacture needs help in knowing how to hang their products, they now contact NGPP to get that person/hanger to test and even write their instruction sheets. Our label is on paste buckets. You will never hear a NGPP member question the importance of membership, only Hangers that THINK they know all there is to know about hanging and the business of hanging. OH and if you think it is all about the annual dues. I have already made back my dues over ten times over this past year just by being referred by the NGPP and all the links to distributors websites. Didn't mean to burst your bubble either.:roflmao:
Carolyn

[blauvelt]

"Our guild is given great respect in the field of decorating. It has taken a long time in getting that respect. "

Gaining respect in wallpapering comes from doing the best job you can. Using propper techniques and quality materials. It also comes from being reliable, clean, honest, and taking great care of your clients property. NGPP has nothing to do with these things (that I've seen) and still the best way to hire a paperhanger is to check their references.

35 years I have never been asked if I was a member. I never read a paste bucket and I have never seen an owner or decorator read the instuctions.

If you enjoy belonging to this group great! If you get work through them great!

[cgreene]

Gaining respect in wallpapering comes from doing the best job you can. Using proper techniques and quality materials. It also comes from being reliable, clean, honest, and taking great care of your clients property.

Sounds like you got it all down.
So why do you keep checking in here? I'm glad you do, I like you. You like to talk shop and share what you know. That's exactly what we need in our Guild. You would be a Rock Star. Try it. You might like it.:funky:

[blauvelt]

Anything I post is no big deal. Just my opinion.

I like you too.

[blauvelt]

" You like to talk shop and share what you know."

One thing I would offer to anyone who is an experienced paperhanger but still a little new to some of the things out there is. Never avoid a challenge. I have no fun hanging a kitchen or bathroom but tell me you have a dome ceiling 60 feet up and I get a rush. You will too. Some of these things may look impossible but if you do some planning you will find they are not impossible and very rewarding.

[LaRusso]

Hello Bob, glad to see you came back.

As I have posted in the past and will continue to do so, installers like yourself and hanginginthere are what we (The NGPP) are about.

Sharing info talking shop and yes finding out how to address a project from another installers point of veiw is always helpful.

For we do not know it all and love to hear from other members as well as guests to hear what you would do.

This is why installers join our organization to learn, like going back to school. Does a graduate with a Masters degree strong in every field, no just in his/her field.

You may be strong in a certain area, need help in another. It does not hurt to learn more, a member may not install high end anytime soon but have some background for the future and the NGPP web site to get information is a win-win.

Anytime you came hone your craft, I say go for it, especailly if you are just starting out in the business.

That is why we are always talking about our continuing education programs,

Maybe you have heard of Fromenthal silks from England maybe not, my point is that this company came over from England to the U.S. and put together a workshop/seminar with the NGPP and the owner along with his installer to educate us in his product.

For he is very annoyed about the product he puts (which is very expensive) out and it is installed by amateurs and bad installations. He knows with all around bad professionalism comes bad sales and he cannot afford to lose money at a pace that he is seeing. By the way he was with Degorney for many years and just recently went on his own. Did I mention he strongly recommends NGPP installers of his product.

As for not seeing our brand name (NGPP) on products, please look again. It is on all Gardner-Gibson adhesives, Zinsser products as well. We are so young and were not involved with advertising as we are installers not market managers, so it has been a slow moving process to reach out to all sectures of our industry.

As time moves into the future we are having more relations with ASID, PDCA, other vendors, wall covering manufactures, etc., in the business.

It may not happen in our installing time but why not set the foundation for the next wave of installers to come, they need help and education just like we did or do.

Thanks again for the visit you are always welcome and we need to spread the word, together we can make a difference.

Lets move "Forward Together"

Thanks again,

Vincent J. LaRusso
Metro Regional Director

[master hanger]

What's great being here are the discussions. I'm to long in it to argue, and I respect others opinions as I get more "seasoned". I'm certainly not angry, and I hope it doesn't come across that way. Sort of therapeutic getting it out there.

Still say your kidding yourself with regard to company respect. Whether you're a NGPP or a first time hanger you treatment will ultimately be the same.

I could say I am the greatest ,with all the respect in the world. Who cares!! Bottom line is the companies are only concerned with well.... the bottom line. I have learned over the years how to protect myself in these situations. I'm sure there are many still trying to.

I make a living at this. A good one I'd say. Wasting my time is not an option. Tell me a company who offers to compensate you for examining and dealing with material so poorly made it shouldn't have left the warehouse. Follow all instructions correctly.... hang 3 strips call, have the designer or client , examine, decide not to install. Great for all except me???? I wasted my time. Company takes the crap back, (just sends it back out to the next sucker), the designers is safe since you didn't install, and the client can rest assured they have an honest hardworking installer to come back at a later date. Is that respect? Little more like abuse.

IMO that is exactly where the effort of the NGPP should focus. An exchange of blowing smoke up each others .. (well you know), doesn't get it done.

I was fortunate to have grown up in this business and at a time where I learned to hang just about anything. Also watched helplessly as companies sent out so much bad material, the industry went in the crapper for years.

I now see a small movement our way and yet still the same mentality from companies. If as some have stated, there is a mutual respect, an effort should be made to solve this problem.

[cgreene]

Denice-However, it's beginning to seem like deja vu all over with the quality from suppliers. Instead of soliciting from them, or going on tours of their facilities, or even worst in my mind, having them give seminars and certifications, they should be held to the same standard as some the installers Without that we're only as good as the materials we're given.

It was no coincidence that the guild was started. A few good men got together and decided it was time to build a relationship with the manufactures instead of fighting with them. It did take time, but now the makers of wallpaper do listen to us and come to us for advice, believe it or not. I have been hanging for 30 years and I can tell you in the beginning I lost many a day from defective paper. It still happens but far less than say 20 years ago.
I went on the Tech Tour last year. We spent 3 days touring factories, printers, distributing warehouses, design rooms learning from the start of an idea for wallpaper all the way to packaging and distributing to visiting New York's finest show rooms. You can have no appreciation for the products you are hanging until you actually see for yourself the journey that wallpaper has traveled.
When we visited the various places, the people working there were just as passionate about their products as we are hanging them. They were just as interested in what information we had for them as we were of the information they could share with us.
I think everybody involved in wallpaper is evenly invested in bringing it back to where it once was.
With the many innovations and various types of substrates,inks,digitizing, etc. The most informed paperhangers that are keeping up and keeping informed will survive. Most paperhangers work alone and don't come in contact with other hangers or even close to a wallpapering manufacturing or supplier of paste,primers,etc CEO or rep. So this is where the guild comes in. I think our guild members are the most informed of what is coming in the wallpaper industry. I have personal business cards from CEOs, down to paperhangers given to me personally. I have phoned them and they have been very willing to help or lead me to someone that could help.

[Bill Archibald]

I know what the NGPP has done for me and other installers. I know what the NGPP has done for the industry.

But I gotta be honest, I have never run across a HO who has heard of the NGPP. I have never run across a decorator who has heard of the NGPP. Well, unless they had hired an NGPP member in the past. In my world, the NGPP has no name recognition. Sure, in the course of conversation I fill them in about what's it all about - but I was not called due to my NGPP membership.

But I did not join nor do I retain my membership as a marketing tool. I am a member to keep my skills and knowledge up to date.

Membership to this or other trade organizations does not guarantee to ANYONE that a member has any level of technical or business skills. I mean come one, we all have met more than one PDCA or NGPP member who are, quite frankly, hacks. Those are the ones who have joined just for the right to show the logo for marketing purposes. Now, don't get me wrong, most members of the PDCA, NGPP, and other trade organizations have joined because they truly do care about being the most informed and the best. And there is really no better place to constantly upgrade your skills and knowledge.

Once we realize and accept how little name recognition this organization of 600+ members has, we can take steps to get the word out.

[master hanger]

I have been hanging for 30 years and I can tell you in the beginning I lost many a day from defective paper. It still happens but far less than say 20 years ago.

Possibly, but think about this...It happens less because wallcovering is still MUCH MUCH less popular than 20 years ago. Now that there may be a glimpse of return in popularity, so is the poor quality.


I went on the Tech Tour last year. We spent 3 days touring factories, printers, distributing warehouses, design rooms learning from the start of an idea for wallpaper all the way to packaging and distributing to visiting New York's finest show rooms. You can have no appreciation for the products you are hanging until you actually see for yourself the journey that wallpaper has traveled.

I guess I'm fortunate here again. My the fine art degree took me through that process in the early 70's. Also NYC is home turf. You would think with what you say about the process, the maker would maker sure the final step, (the inspection, delivery, and support of their product), reflexed all the time and effort that preceded. As far as tech tours... I believe Innovations was a stop someone mentioned to me for a tech tour. Had an experience just this week with their material. Was sent 3 bolts of fabric, 3 run numbers, with 3 completely different backings. None of which were appropriate to install. Calling the company put me on hold for 30 minutes never speaking to anyone. Had the designer come to inspect. 3 hours later he reached his rep who told him its 6-8months away to get new material. Guess what happened next



With the many innovations and various types of substrates,inks,digitizing, etc. The most informed paperhangers that are keeping up and keeping informed will survive. Most paperhangers work alone and don't come in contact with other hangers or even close to a wallpapering manufacturing or suppler of paste,primers,etc CEO or rep. So this is where the guild comes in. .

I couldn't agree with you more here. In fact, that's exactly my point. BTW I'm Dennis:)

[master hanger]

I know what the NGPP has done for me and other installers. I know what the NGPP has done for the industry.

But I gotta be honest, I have never run across a HO who has heard of the NGPP. I have never run across a decorator who has heard of the NGPP. Well, unless they had hired an NGPP member in the past. In my world, the NGPP has no name recognition. Sure, in the course of conversation I fill them in about what's it all about - but I was not called due to my NGPP membership.

But I did not join nor do I retain my membership as a marketing tool. I am a member to keep my skills and knowledge up to date.

Membership to this or other trade organizations does not guarantee to ANYONE that a member has any level of technical or business skills. I mean come one, we all have met more than one PDCA or NGPP member who are, quite frankly, hacks. Those are the ones who have joined just for the right to show the logo for marketing purposes. Now, don't get me wrong, most members of the PDCA, NGPP, and other trade organizations have joined because they truly do care about being the most informed and the best. And there is really no better place to constantly upgrade your skills and knowledge.

Once we realize and accept how little name recognition this organization of 600+ members has, we can take steps to get the word out.


No need to comment here. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[LaRusso]

Hello Dennis and thank you for your visits.

I may be wrong but you sound like you are up in age and have been around the block. Experience is always a good thing.

We need to start somewhere here at the NGPP, having Designers, manufactures, AIA (Architects), GC's, etc,. on educationing them all to what goes in and on the wall.

Now for many, many years nobody and I mean nobody ever took the time to call or sit down with a wall covering manufacture and say, this product is good this one is not and so on. They do not know anything is wrong if nobody tells them, "If it is not broke don't fix it". Which is what they thought was right. We here at the NGPP are doing everything to help them and they appreciate our help.

Now after all these years of bad installs and nightmare removals, sales have pummeled down from billions to millions. For they market it to the do-it-yourselfer and agreed it was a bad move on thier part.

Moving forward

Just recently all the manufactures that are still producing wall coverings are asking us (the NGPP) for help. That are members that is. Many more we need to met and greet.

Now we can do one of two things , first keep complaining that thier products are not hangable, or two - help them make a better product.

I believe the answer is a nobrainer, number 2.

Now we are a small organization (numbers wise) in the industry World we are well known or heard of. I am talking around the globe, here in the states most installers complain about this product or that product, but around the rest of the globe it is not like that.

I know because I talk to them on a daily to weekly basis, for I am the International Chairperson representing the NGPP. No installer, designer, manufacture ever comments on how bad a product is, maybe it is a respect thing or maybe they just don't bad mouth one another, for I do not know nor do I ask.

They all speak very highly of the industry that they are in. Why can't we?

They also say that the NGPP is a good place for information about something in our industry. and enjoy visiting and talking with us.

If a company has a problem why not help? You buy a Ford and have a bad experience, do people stop buying Fords?

If McDonald's has a bad day in a loaction somewhere in the U.S. does that store close down? Do people stop eating McDonald's?

Now you may not agree with my pionts of veiw, but we are all installers of wall coverings and that is the business we have chosen, so why not help it and make it better, as to always complaining and doing nothing. (Not saying you are complaining, just making a piont)

With the power of the internet and people like yourself Dennis, we can spread the word and help each other in the wall covering business. For this is what we do, I am to committed in my field to change to another occupation, nor do I want to, I have always enjoy installing wall coverings and to this day still do.

Together we can make a difference, if not for us then for the next wave of Dennis's and installers out there, we need to start sometime, how about now time.


"Forward Together"

Vincent J. LaRusso
Metro Regional Director

[upthewall]

I too have been in this business for going on thirty years. In that time I have run the gambit from my early days as a hotel production hack to running a company that employed twenty five other hotel production hacks and doing ridiculously large volume projects to blowing all that off and working only residential alone or with my wife, with a focus on the high end. In the end I think that i have experienced a good chunk of what this industry has to offer. Now, I do not consider myself anywhere near the best there is or even in the running, but I have a very loyal following and rarely have to go back on a job.

In that time It has been my pleasure to have known quite a few good hangers who were members and a few not so good. By far more good than bad. I am very familiar with the NGPP and I have nothing but respect for what it represents. I myself am not the joining type and really feel no need to be a member of any organization. I do feel that if you take a good overlook at our industry you will realize that the NGPP is really the only common sense unified voice there is.

You cannot consider an Industry where the manufacturers of the base product not only fail to ever, in any way, advertise or promote their wares to the masses, do nothing to educate or inform their consumers and are actually hostile to the people who are selling their products on the retail level and the installers on whom they are dependent. Ask any factory rep whose fault a crappy product or a failed job is and he is programmed to say " it was the installer." Even before he has seen it. Just read a standard disclaimer...We are not responsible for anything..ever and don't even ask us to compensate anybody for anything even if it is our fault. In fact I have been told by a well known manufacturer of flock goods, that I should go ahead and hang the defective goods and just try to sell it; on my own dime of course. Ask you local retailer about purchase minimums from companies and book costs. I swear I have never seen a more self destructive, self righteous, group of people. This industry has survived this long despite itself.

If I were to give advice to a newbie in the field I would say this. Look for knowledge in every corner and in every pattern. You will never know all there is to know, but be humble and and don't be afraid to ask. Treat every client like they are your family and above all else have fun with it and you will make money. The NGPP would be a great place to start.

The economy has provided us with a Darwinian fresh start. Many of the weak have gone on to the paint brush. Soon there will be a new breed of hanger and dinosaurs like me will just keep on pluggin' away till the ladder is just one step too high. My opinion, for what little it is worth, would be to focus on the future hangers, the kids who will need direction in the industry. Yours is the only voice that can be considered sensible.

[Bill Archibald]

well said, Ted.

And, the NGPP is trying to reach out to the next generation of paperhangers.

the Boston Chapter has had a number of meetings at local trade schools and address the questions of the students interested in making paperhanging a career. I was interested that many of them were concerned about the monetary rewards and viability of this business.

It's tough to sound positive with the condition the industry is in.

And speaking of the manufacturers. Many of us in the NGPP have been long concerned about the industry not doing anything to promote and advertise wallcovering to the general public. Their answer is there is no money for it. I try to think of other manufacturers who feel they can survive without investing in advertising.

You said, "I have never seen a more self destructive, self righteous, group of people". I'd like to present evidence to the contrary, but all I keep thinking about is the response some industry supplier said about a lot of paper that was returned defective, "keep shipping it out until it doesn't come back". I hope this was just an invented rumor by some disgruntled paperhanger, but who here doubts the validity of that scenario?

I am heartened that many in the industry are now coming to the NGPP for the advice we have been freely giving these many years. I guess hemorrhaging bank accounts improve the hearing. Look at the American auto industry. They are finally beginning to HEAR what the American public WANTS.

[Jeff Evans]

I wonder what the effect would be if the US government took over F. Schumacher? :devil:

[Bill Archibald]

I wonder what the effect would be if the US government took over F. Schumacher? :devil:


Hey, might help. Definitely couldn't hurt. And maybe they could pay it back with interest like some of the banks are already doing :2thumbs:

Also, I always wanted my share of a 'stimulus package'

Once we get it, I'll call a meeting in Belize to hand out all the deserved bonuses :roflmao:

[LaRusso]

Thank you for your input upthewall.

I only wish there were more of you and joining th NGPP would only make our voice be heard a lot sooner, if you know what I mean.

United we stand divided we fall, has always be brought to my attention when ever I am in front of a vendor or manufacture of wall coverings. Hearing we are to small to make a difference if you had the numbers we would do whatever needs doing. Has always drove me to grow the NGPP!

So why not join and make us stronger, so the manufacture wil do it our way and listen to how it is better for their products!

I agree with you about advertisment, after 30 years in the business I have never seen or heard a commercial about wallpaper, now if I owned a manufacture and it produced wallpaper or wall coverings I be damned if I am not advertising it everwhere. Makes nosense to me why they never did or do it.

With that said they are hurting, as all of us are and need help, and they are asking for the NGPP to help then, we cannot nor do we choose to walk away. We are in the same business they make it and we install it, so we are helping we instructions and ways to install this product with that adhesive, what primers go better with this product, etc.

I agree that we need to address the young or new installer coming out of High school or College and felt that was not for them and turned to a trade.

Wall coverings has also changed for the better, all these high end wall coverings and different sizes, digital murals, is great for us because it weeds out the novice or do-it-yorselfer's, glass beaded, wood, cork, Mother-of Pearl, embossed, etc.

I am also the International Chairperson for the NGPP and we have alot of members from all over the World, in Japan, South Africa, Australia, Canada, Mexico, England the NGPP is bigger then you think. There is alot of wall covering manufactures out there and come to us for advice and we are very happy to help ion anyway and they say it is nice to have someone like yourselves to come and find information.

So you see for many, many years installers like yourself and me were left on there on our own to figure it out, well not anymore here comes the NGPP and we will make our industry a better place for all installers, may not be soon but you wait and see it will happen.

Thanks for your time,

Vincent J. LaRusso
Metro Regional Director
International Membership Chairperson

[Jeff Evans]

You know....join, or don't join, it doesn't matter to me. I knew about the Guild for years before I joined. I did it on my own schedule, when I felt like it. My work life improved immensely not long after, and I was no slouch prior.

You can understate the Guild's importance all you want, but the fact is there are many manufacturers and suppliers that are sending clients to the Guild website to find a paperhanger to install their goods. Guess who's getting those jobs? I've never, ever been asked in 25 years if I'm an NGPP member. Who cares? That's not the point. There is exactly one (1) organization on the planet that is all about paperhangers. It might not have the "teeth" some would like it to have, but it's a united group with a purpose, which is more than any one person can do on their own.

Again, join or not, it doesn't affect me. It will only help you.:2cents:

[LaRusso]

Thanks Jeff, for your added quotes

Well said!

I believe the installer who has been around for a long time 25 to 30 years has the same look on our industry, nothing has changed and nothing will change!

Those who have that mind set, so be it, I for one like you Jeff joined on my own and I can honestly say in the 8 years I have been a member my business has grown from networking to earning more money, has tripled.

You can believe me or you can say it is just be luck or timing, whatever you think those are the facts.

Join or don't join, I could not have said it better, I will say when the market turns around and it will those lagging in the back will not prevail, those that are members will prosper.

For our industry now knows about the NGPP and word is spreading faster and faster, thanks to the internet, so jump on while and enjoy the ride or just sit back and watch it past you by, your call.


Thanks,


Vincent J. LaRusso
Metro Regional Director

[master hanger]

LaRusso... I have to give you credit. You are a one man NGPP promoting machine!!!:banana:

I think you'd agree, we are trying to promote all paperhangers. I for one would be quite impressed to here the forces of the NGPP has pressured the industry suppliers to change their mentality in regard to how their materials arrive in the market place. If you say it's changed to any significant degree, I respectfully say your misinformed ,or don't see it as hands on as some.

I understand the need for seminars, tech tours and the like to promote interest in NGPP. Of more interest to me would be gathering suppliers for a seminar, or better yet a "supplier tech tour" of a bad material supplied jobs, and how the hanger is left to deal with it. There certainly would be an abundance of jobs to choose from. :D

BTW, leaving late this morning to give the designer and client time to get to the job so we can discuss the bad material the client hates.

[Lee Epstein]

Dennis, I can tell you one thing the NGPP has changed. With a couple of manufacturers, if you are a Guild member you can receive some funds when the manufacturer has supplied materials that were defective. Still not a day's pay but some recovery of your lost time. Also not all manufacturers but you know what they say, "Rome wasn't built in a day." With more members paperhangers get more clout. Just a thought. BTW Vinny is not as out of touch as you may believe. I worked with Vinny on Long Island 25 years ago.

[blauvelt]

What I see more than defective material are indecisive designers with great expectations using handmade or natural products they've not only never used before but never seen up before.

The good ones will understand these products are unique. The bad ones will question you on the installation. Not so much the material but if I have any doubt with the person I'm dealing with I always stop and get the okay to continue.

[master hanger]

Dennis, I can tell you one thing the NGPP has changed. With a couple of manufacturers, if you are a Guild member you can receive some funds when the manufacturer has supplied materials that were defective. Still not a day's pay but some recovery of your lost time.
.

Wow Lee that's good to here. Who provides the funds?

I was paid to remove, re-prep, re-hang.... once in almost 40 years. July 16 1979. Guess the date sort of stuck with me. Was an expensive Schumacher paper and this was a year after I installed it. Ink issue on their part.

[master hanger]

What I see more than defective material are indecisive designers with great expectations using handmade or natural products they've not only never used before but never seen up before.

The good ones will understand these products are unique. The bad ones will question you on the installation. Not so much the material but if I have any doubt with the person I'm dealing with I always stop and get the okay to continue.

Boy did you hit a nerve. I didn't even get into the designer aspect of it all. Just last week, had material that was awful. Got the designer to check it out 3 hours later. He called his rep who got back to him 2 hours later. Between the 2 of them they decided since new material would take 6-8 months to get, the designer negotiated a 15% credit and signed off on it for me to hang.

Also did a Romanoff thick weave dark brown in a study. Layed out all the seams, designer watched me do half the room and was pleased.

Fast forward 2 days later.... the client hates everything. He questions all the "characteristics" that make the product so expensive. The weave he told the designer, "the seams didn't match!"

My reply.... You did tell him about the seams with weaves right? You and the rep can figure out the other one. Problem is I still have 250yds of this fabric in a different pattern to install . Good thing I get 50% up front This guy uses the strangest materials. His favorite is Archetonic. I won't let the customer leave until they see 3 strips up.

I have one designer I've known all my career. He asks me before he shows a customer if the material is going to have any issues installation wise. Says with all the problems he can have on a project, he'd rather avoid one if he can. Easy enough to just pick something else. Love this guy!

[blauvelt]

It's the designers job to know their clients. If they have to educate them that some materials panel and not all products hide seams, well then that's their job too.

Richard Himmel was a very high priced decorator and the most friendly to paperhangers I've ever dealt with. I got to work with him at the tail end of his career before he passed away.

I once had a billionaire investment banker freakout on me. Himmel came to the job and told him like it is. " This is handmade! If you want paper that all matches up nice we can go to Home Depot right now and get the cheapest carp they have. Otherwise you leave this man alone. He's doing a beautiful job." :)

[Lee Epstein]

Dennis, I'm not sure who they are. But someone will chime in later I'm sure. I do remember that they were not the biggies like Schumacher or Romanoff. If guys like you join in the fight maybe someday we can pressure them all to be accountable for their defects or maybe (god forbid) check their goods before they leave the factories?

[My-T-Fine]

Dennis, I'm not sure who they are. But someone will chime in later I'm sure. I do remember that they were not the biggies like Schumacher or Romanoff. If guys like you join in the fight maybe someday we can pressure them all to be accountable for their defects or maybe (god forbid) check their goods before they leave the factories?

It says in my NGPP packet that Blonder will issue a credit for material and professional labor to our members within 48 hours of receiving the labor bill and the returned merchandise showing proof of the wallcovering defect..

[LaRusso]

The other was Thibaut, and they handed out two checks of $250 or $350 I am not sure the correct amount for locating bad or defected goods on projects across the country, at the Asheville convention back in September of 2008.

So you see they are making strides (small ones) but in the right direction.

It needs time, gentlemen, just be patient. It will happen.

I always find it funny that installers like yourselves always knocking this material or that material and yet still it the trade! Are we nuts or what?

How about calling the manufacture and suggesting your professionalism as what needs to be done in order to make thier product(s) better, did the thought ever cross any of your mines?

Well it has here at the NGPP and we have thier ears, they are listening to our needs. They (the Manufactures) are asking us all kinds of questions and we are trying to answer in the right way.

Now we know it will take time for all of the manufactures to cross over to the dark side and wake up and smell the coffee, but it takes hard and long work.

For we are an non-profit organization and with that said it means volunteer time on our part, and with family time, business time and personal time, it takes time!

Be patient and all good things come to those who wait, and believe me I am in the same boat you and the rest of us are in and cannot wait for all to wake up and smell the roses, until then we have to sit back and plan our attacks strategicailly.

We need people like yourselves with the energy and knowledge to overcome these battles or problems in our industry.

Complaining to each other is not going to work, only make us waste more time talking about it and not doing anything and that has been the problem over the past forty years or so and it stops now with the NGPP!

Thank you all,

Vincent J. LaRusso
Metro Regional Director

[upthewall]

In consideration for joining the guild I would not be looking to increase my business, at least not at this time. I have been truly blessed or just lucky to be very well connected and known in my local market and I stay pretty busy. That being said, I am for the first time actually considering taking the step. I have been giving it some thought lately and I would like to have the opportunity to share my years of experience for better or for worse or a least for a laugh among those who would most appreciate it. Quite frankly, this business has put me through the ringer more times than I care to think about and what has not killed me has made me stronger and virtually immune to the B.S.

I think that besides the obvious necessity of being technically capable of doing a flawless install as quickly as possible. the most important part of being successful is how you handle the business end. We can never lose sight of the fact that we are in a service business, however skilled we consider ourselves. To the client, we are just “The Wallpaper Guy.” It is up to each of us to take it to the next level. It has been my experience that the relationship that I build with each client and their friends is really where my business is defined. From a strictly business perspective, I have never considered the relationships that I have built through the years with other hangers (besides the old timers who taught me the trade) to be of any real benefit.

My interest at this point, is the fact that you guys are so focused on really trying to make a difference. I respect that and I think I can, in some small way, contribute to that end. For some reason, lately I have been getting a lot of calls for larger scale commercial projects. I have been avoiding them for years, but now I think I am going to head down that road one more time. I intend to incorporate into this trend the training of a couple of young guys who are really in need some direction, kind of like what was done for me a long time ago. At least that is my plan and as is usual with my plans…Wait…Did you hear that…I think I heard God laughing.

[Bill Archibald]

In the past, many manufacturers were on board to give us some kind of monetary compensation for set up when defective material caused us time delays. I think Imperial and FSC were two of the biggest. Well, we all know what happened to Imperial and FSC is set upon by hard times. Those offers went the way of the Dodo bird a number of years ago.

Yes, the Thibaut guy did speak about the compensation at the Convention. I am happily surprised that Blonder is still able to offer compensation.

Unfortunately the downward trend of the industry has caused more manufacturers to withdraw the compensation offer than those who are initiating this program. But we will not quit in our efforts to "encourage" them to see the advantage of being more diligent about shipping good products.

Personally, over the past 37 years, I have had maybe 2-3% of products that were bad enough to need re-ordering. Perhaps 7 - 8 % have had issues that I have been able to work around. (very rough estimates). I really can not complain if the percentage is kept that low. What does concern me the most is that I am seeing more lately than I've seen in the past.

-Bill

[Boston Hangman]

"Our guild is given great respect in the field of decorating. It has taken a long time in getting that respect. "

Gaining respect in wallpapering comes from doing the best job you can. Using propper techniques and quality materials. It also comes from being reliable, clean, honest, and taking great care of your clients property. NGPP has nothing to do with these things (that I've seen) and still the best way to hire a paperhanger is to check their references.

35 years I have never been asked if I was a member. I never read a paste bucket and I have never seen an owner or decorator read the instuctions.

If you enjoy belonging to this group great! If you get work through them great!


with all due respect...the National Guild of Professional Paperhangers as a whole carries a little more weight than Blauvelt wallcoverings .

We are educating designers, manufacturers and homeowners everyday , one by one. When people come together for the common good of the group ...great things happen! :thumbup:

I do believe that the NGPP has a long way to go , but even so, it is better to be a single part of a whole than the whole of one. :tiphat:

Mark
NGPP - Boston Chapter member

[blauvelt]

"with all due respect...the National Guild of Professional Paperhangers as a whole carries a little more weight than Blauvelt wallcoverings . "


Yes. I know that's true but at Blauvelt's annual we play with fishing poles and golf clubs not wallpaper tools.

[blauvelt]

Hi Mark,
To respond to your post a little more seriously I would say this. Until accidentally a couple weeks ago or so I never heard of NGPP or this board. Having had a chance to read a bit I would say that all the regulars here that post are professional hangers who know what they're doing. My question would be this. What kind of benefit would an owner have in hiring a paperhanger who is a member?

[Bill Archibald]

Bob,

On my website, I use these words to give customers reasons how NGPP membership helps me be a better installer, "Bill is an active member of the National Guild of Professional Paperhangers through which he constantly updates his knowledge of products, equipment, and techniques."

OH, and BTW, at our conventions we have opportunities to mis-use fishing clubs and golf poles too :lol: . AND we have hand to hand combat with our tools. (or apparently WILL in Niagara :devil:)

Can Blauvelt et Co. beat THAT :roflmao: :2thumbs: :tiphat:

[Jeff Evans]

Hi Mark,
To respond to your post a little more seriously I would say this. Until accidentally a couple weeks ago or so I never heard of NGPP or this board. Having had a chance to read a bit I would say that all the regulars here that post are professional hangers who know what they're doing. My question would be this. What kind of benefit would an owner have in hiring a paperhanger who is a member?

I don't know why I'm diving back into this. Maybe because I took the day off and I'm bored, who knows? I think you're playing devil's advocate a little, Bob, because it should be plain as day the benefit of joining the ONLY organization for our trade. It's not perfect. It does beat the PDCA, whose magazine I just got- DECO. They pay token attention to wallpaper over there from what I see. Yeah, yeah, I know Dave D had an article in there this issue, and there was yet another WWWW article in there. But it's all painting, all the time until you get to the back of the magazine. Sort of like getting to sit at the back of the bus.

If you can't see the benefit of joining an organization that is the only one of its kind then I can't help you. But I'll say this: I've played my share of golf and continue to catch my share of wild trout. I didn't have to hang that up to become a member. In other words, I do this during the week:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/LAhanger/IMGP0142.jpg

So that I can use this:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/LAhanger/ElkHaircaddis.jpg

To catch these:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/LAhanger/Browntrout.jpg

If we ever meet I'll make you a deal. We play a round of golf, I give you two a side, and if I still beat you you get to join the Guild. Deal? By the way, I'll be using these:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/LAhanger/Golfclubs.jpg

[LaRusso]

Hello again Bob, now since you have heard of us, why not take this time and share your expertise and knowledge with us. For you have knowledge of who we are, we like to know who you are.

Always willing to learn and see how it is done by another installer, and by the way I do not know about you, but I like to pass on whatever I have learned through the years and know about our trade to someone in the trade that might be of some help one day.

Unless you have a son and is following in your footsteps all your tricks, tips and knowledge will go with you and that my friend would be a shame.

For I have heard about installer's here in the New York area and how good they were but never left any tricks, tips or knowledge behind what a bummer.

So think about it, maybe visit a local chapter or a workshop when in your area, I believe you have something to share and I know you feel the same way.

So put aside the ego and pride (do not ever let that go) one time and join, for it is installers such as yourself we very so much need and welcome.

Thnak you,

Vincent J. LaRusso
Metro Regional Director

[Boston Hangman]

Hi Mark,
To respond to your post a little more seriously I would say this. Until accidentally a couple weeks ago or so I never heard of NGPP or this board. Having had a chance to read a bit I would say that all the regulars here that post are professional hangers who know what they're doing. My question would be this. What kind of benefit would an owner have in hiring a paperhanger who is a member?

sorry to disappoint you , but I don't use the NGPP to sell my talents to the general public. Aside from a wee bit of a logo on my card I don't even use it to promote myself. I don't try to sell myself against non members .

I am a part of the Guild because I want to continue the education I started when I first set to work with my father's company .

I enjoy the camaraderie of my fellow members both local and national.

I find that being a part of the Guild has improved my self esteem in being a professional paperhanger and I didn't think or for that matter know that I needed it .:lol:

I have many things to be thankful for in this life and none of them came from me, they all came from people I have met and joined up with along the way. The Guild is a part of that as well.

Joining a group like the Guild is a selfish act ,in that I am rewarded ten fold for what I put in.

What does a homeowner benefit from hiring an NGPP member ...well all of the above and more. :thumbup:

and I got more than a few hours of fishing in in last year at the Asheville convention. :tiphat:

[Bill Archibald]

If we ever meet I'll make you a deal. We play a round of golf, I give you two a side, and if I still beat you you get to join the Guild. Deal? By the way, I'll be using these:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/LAhanger/Golfclubs.jpg


BOB, take him up on it !!! I've been trying to entice him back on the links for years. He claims he was good at one time - real good. I think he's got rusty just like that loft wedge. Look how old those clubs are ! That Mizuno MP-001 is what? 2003 technology ?? Heck he don even got no hybrids in there !

How good can he be now ?

:devil: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :devil: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :devil:

[Jeff Evans]

BOB, take him up on it !!! I've been trying to entice him back on the links for years. He claims he was good at one time - real good. I think he's got rusty just like that loft wedge. Look how old those clubs are ! That Mizuno MP-001 is what? 2003 technology ?? Heck he don even got no hybrids in there !

How good can he be now ?

:devil: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :devil: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :devil:

It's a poor craftsman, who blames his tools.;) Old or not, I can still use them. Oh, and the LOB wedge is supposed to get rusty. It adds backspin to the shot.:thumbup:

[Bill Archibald]

It's a poor craftsman, who blames his tools.;) Old or not, I can still use them. Oh, and the LOB wedge is supposed to get rusty. It adds backspin to the shot.:thumbup:

:roflmao:

I'll do and say ANYTHING to get YOU back out.



LOB - LOFT, whatever it takes. I just open up my PW.

So if age and rust helps, maybe if I played with these I'd break 120 ? :roflmao:

1651



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http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/CLASS/130-221.jpg
Grab a bucket of bats, Killer