Overlay??

[HangingInThere]

I seem to remember some thoughts posted a while back on the pros and cons of overlaying.

I've a situation where the existing vinyl is excellent. All corners, inside and out, are tight. I'm confident that an overlay of another fabric backed vinyl could be accomplished without incident.

However, some of my recent research is pointing to problems with firecodes.

Anyone knowledgeable about this??

[edit] It does appear that the existing installation was hung on primed drywall which would facilitate removal. I could then velcro an install. But, it would be more my liking to prime and overlay...less complicated me thinks...if it would not violate code.

[Chris Nelson]

Codes are different from state to state, depends on where you are.

[Boston Hangman]

I seem to remember some thoughts posted a while back on the pros and cons of overlaying.

I've a situation where the existing vinyl is excellent. All corners, inside and out, are tight. I'm confident that an overlay of another fabric backed vinyl could be accomplished without incident.

However, some of my recent research is pointing to problems with firecodes.

Anyone knowledgeable about this??

[edit] It does appear that the existing installation was hung on primed drywall which would facilitate removal. I could then velcro an install. But, it would be more my liking to prime and overlay...less complicated me thinks...if it would not violate code.

In my experience, it is never "less complicated" to do the right thing, though sometimes it appears to be so. If it is as you say ,primed and strippable, then why not do it right? No worries about fire codes, underlying vinyl coming loose and it is more work for you in a slow economy.

As Chris stated ,codes vary, you will need to check your local codes.

[Eunice, PRS Reporter]

In addition to the firecode situation, many wallcovering manufacturers will absolve themselves of any and all accountability if you 'double hang'. There was a major lawsuit over smoke generation from an electrical fire that Omnova was involved in and they're strongly against layered installs.

Another issue is not scoring the underneath vinyl when you double cut. Priming with R-35 and installing with clay will work, as will using VOV adhesive straight on, but that adhesive is expensive and you really have to watch out for shiners - it's a polymer base and doesn't wash up well. I think the professional high road is to remove and re-install. It's also more work for you! Well explained, most clients will choose the better way of doing a job.

[HangingInThere]

The install is 3 flights of open stairs (landings and sidewalls) of 16' drops. Mucho ladder work! Also, the lobbies are 10' ers.

My concerns were double-cutting at those lengths with a velcro install. Although the vinyl selected is a type II, the pattern will not be forgiving if the seams do not behave. If I'm atop a good vinyl install, I'll not have to worry about losing any seams...my working time is comfortably increased.

I did call code enforcement for Minnesota and there is nothing prohibiting an overlay.

I have used R-35 with clay in the past and had great results. I'm always looking for future ease of removal which VOV does not provide. What happens to the next install if you VOV two layers?? You go a third at some point and begin to lose reveal on casings. Also, if there is a potential for damage during removal, removing a double layer would not provide the flexibility to keep the vinyl tight to the wall when pulling down sheets. My thought is that substrate damage would almost be a certainty.

I did not demo a spot to actually determine the strippability. I've just not had good experiences with removing someone else's commercial vinyl. Yep, it has usually resulted in added expense to the client. Perhaps not everywhere, but it seems inevitable that there will be drywall damage to some degree. If I do a layover that point is moot as I know there will be no issues...well, unlikely that there will be. :rolleyes:

I can also use a Swedish seam buster which I am quite partial to... Using a Swedish doing a velcro install can create problems in that the shoe of the buster can leave a track in the existing residue creating seaming issues. Especially, when the drops are this long, as the residue gets too much of a chance to soften with the increased length of exposure to the "active" paste.

So far, this has been one of those field decisions where I've been weighing the pros and cons. I would much rather velcro the installation. The stop watch is also running on this one and if there are issues underlying the existing vinyl that would necessitate repairs, my window of opportunity to complete gets quite uncomfortable...

[HangingInThere]

I began priming with R-35 today. While doing my thing, I noticed the tapers busy in one of the wings getting a tenant finish. Oh my, the tapers were quite busy all over the thing pulling loose drywall paper from whence the fabric backed vinyl had been removed.

They were carving away at the paper trying to find anything left intact. Drawtite followed by a drywall mud slurry and blading were the course for the day.

Had I elected to pull my portion of the job down...Oh My... I suspect I just saved the client a boatload of money...