Silk Dynasty ?

[Paul P]

Hi guys... I'm the noob here.

We have been asked to hang some Silk Dynasty - Paris Collection for a customer here.

Glazed ceramic on canvas/embossed/fabric backing

We have hung many high dollar drops in our time but this one has us a little worried. After asking the company for their suggested directions we got back 8 pages of very specific instruction. 8 PAGES :eek:

I would not be so worried but we will be hanging it in a curved stairwell. 12' panels at about 30' above the stairs and 10' panels below that. We have trimmed in boxes we will be dropping them in. These boxes are a little shorter than the panels and we will be seaming it once down the middle of each box.

Have any of you guys ever hung any Silk Dynasty on anything other than flat walls? Like I said we will be trimming it into the "boxes" and it is a curved wall. Those two factors have me worried. I'm sure it hangs just fine on flat walls in the showroom.

Anyone have any hints on this one? I thought you "Guild" guys might have at least handled this stuff........

http://www.silkdynasty.com/paris.html

[Paul P]

Well, I see my inquiry went right by you guys.......

If this is any indication as to how the guild works, I now understand why the Columbia, SC chapter flopped so badly.

At least I did get some support from a few Guild Members outside of this place. I guess there is still some hope.

Thanks anyway guys.......

[Bill Archibald]

Mr P.,

Your last note caught my eye and I felt a strong urge to respond in an acerbic tone, but I bite my tongue.

I would ask that you consider that perhaps all those who read your first query had not installed any Silk Dynasty in a situation as you described and may have felt it unwise and unprofessional to answer a question for which they did not have experience.

I see not the need for taking a swipe at the NGPP because no one with this unique experience was able to answer. I do know that many are timid to respond for fear that they may be flamed or otherwise jumped upon. Your response only enforces that fear.

-Bill Archibald
Norfolk, MA
NGPP, Boston Chapter
Chair, Communications Committee

[Paul P]

Thank you Bill for your correspondence.

My reply to my own post is born of my frustration in not receiving the slightest recognition that anyone here even knew what I was talking about. My frustration is further fueled by the illusive nature of this material and finding someone who has handled it before.

I have been communicating on Internet forums a long time and sit on staff at several. I, all too well, understand your point and position. I respectfully ask that you forgive my tone. I had intended only to poke a little and see if it was alive. I guess I got carried away. :( I should know better.

[Eunice, PRS Reporter]

Hey Paul,

I am one of the many who read your post, and as Bill said, since I do not have direct experience with that material, didn't feel qualified to offer a response.

Like you, I was sure hoping someone would respond because it sounds like quite the stuff, and I would like to know the answers too! Where are you now on the job and what sort of information were you able to gather from other installers offline? Is the ceramic brittle, making the curve a problem?

I hope you will post as to what has happened so we can continue to learn. Sorry you felt let down on this one.

[Chris Nelson]

As was sugested on another board, did you contact Michael Keith aka walldude at walldude@aol.com? He wrote the directions for this material,I believe.

[Paul P]

Originally posted by Chris Nelson
As was suggested on another board, did you contact Michael Keith aka walldude at walldude@aol.com? He wrote the directions for this material,I believe.

I have hesitated to contact Mr. Keith for two reasons.

From reading the instructions / compared to the limited info I can in fact gather, those who have hung this material have completely disregarded the written instruction prescribed by him. For instance Mr. Keith suggests using a Heavy Duty Clear and pasting several times but the few that have made any comment anywhere say Clay Base is the way to go. I feel that it would be a bit redundant to inquire with him as I have read the 8 pages he and the company offer.

The other reason would be a hint someone dropped... He won't hang it himself anymore.


Originally posted by eunice
I hope you will post as to what has happened so we can continue to learn. Sorry you felt let down on this one.
Thank you for your reply eunice. I will pass along anything I can accumulate from the experience. The job is not going to be ready for a while. That is why I am on a fact finding mission now. To be honest we haven't really accepted the challenge yet but I'm sure we are going to, at the very least, attempt to meet the challenge. Like any job, I'll learn most everything I need to know when we start to apply it to the walls.
Thank you for your acknowledgment and support.

[Chris Murphy]

Not everyone checks this thing all the time, so either have some patience...OR JOIN THE GUILD so you have sources to call.
'Dude may have written some of the instructions, but not all, I don't think.
My source for SD info is KL Conner, he's done a bunch of the ceramics (PapaKL@aol.com). I don't understand your "boxes," that you're "dropping" the sheets into.

www.ScenicHanger.com

[Paul P]

Originally posted by Chris Murphy
Not everyone checks this thing all the time, so either have some patience...OR JOIN THE GUILD so you have sources to call.
'Dude may have written some of the instructions, but not all, I don't think.
My source for SD info is KL Conner, he's done a bunch of the ceramics (PapaKL@aol.com). I don't understand your "boxes," that you're "dropping" the sheets into.

www.ScenicHanger.com

Sorry Chris, I use this darn box maybe too much. I check it all the time. I guess I just thought everyone used it daily.

If I had a guild chapter here in Columbia I would join. I'm a single Dad and I don't have the leisure of jumping in the truck and running off to the closest meeting to associate. It seems the people around here are more interested in posturing than they are about sharing. :rolleyes: We did have a chapter at one time and a lot of chapters "spun off" from this one when we did. Hey, I've accepted that I'm down south and egos are bigger than organization. I guess Cola. hasn't caught up with Atlanta. You think?

The "Boxes" we are hanging this in are trimmed out with 1/2" molding on a curved wall. Each box has two vertical strips of molding running parallel to each other and one strip of the same molding at the top running horizontal to the verticals, and one at the bottom in the same attitude. In short a "Trimmed in box". The horizontal strips will be Bent (warped) to the radius (curvature) of the walls.

The other pain is that we will have to "hang" several flat walls, BUT there are arched doorways leading from the "hall" or room. Trimming to these arches seems like it will also be a pain due to the nature of the material. Templates seem to be in order here.

Let me add this... I posted my inquiry in earnest. I posted the reply in frustration. I posted my apology to Bill Archibald & the forum from my most sincere regret for getting upset. At this point any attitude regarding my frustration would be pointless. I'm just looking for answers. If you think I should join the Guild then show me an organization I would want to join or start a chapter of and not a a group I dread asking a question of, or leading.

The thing about Internet forums is that you only read words here. You don't get to see posture, you don't see a persons eyes, you don't hear the chuckle in the voice in a reply. You only read words and THEN you have to discern how it was offered. My post is a prime example of this. Your post only followed suit. I know how I could have tempered my post to mitigate my tone. Do You?

[Chris Murphy]

<< The thing about Internet forums is that you only read words here. You don't get to see posture, you don't see a persons eyes, you don't hear the chuckle in the voice in a reply. You only read words and THEN you have to discern how it was offered. My post is a prime example of this. Your post only followed suit. I know how I could have tempered my post to mitigate my tone. Do You?>>

No, I don't. You wanted a solution, and I gave you two. I didn't "follow your suit."

[Bill Archibald]

Sorry Paul not to have more info on your Silk Dynasty, but I just had to assure you that Chris is the same warm lovable curmudgeon in person :D

Pity me, please, as I asked him first to help with our newsletter, The INSTALLER, when I was volunteered to be its editor, and I now consult with him often. (NEVER wake him from a nap :o )

But I assure you the answers and advice he gives are well worth the abuse that comes with them :D :D

I can give you about 800 good reasons to join the Guild, and Chris is just ONE of them.


-Bill

[Paul P]

Chris, I apologize for not recognizing in my post that you did in fact give 2 directions to look to. Thank you very much for the e-mail for PapaKL. Your most recent reply only reinforces my opinion of the Guild. Were it not for Bill & eunice I would probably just walk away shaking my head.

You know they have meds out for anxiety now that might help......:rolleyes:

Bill - I understand the ego involved. I worked with and apprenticed under a guy who left a person with the same feeling Chris leaves you with. I had to swallow a LOT of pride and bow my head many times but the sacrifice was worth it all as I learned more than I could have ever dreamed of with anyone else. He has become much wiser with age and I now look forward to getting to work with him. Even after 15 years he still finds something to teach me whenever I do. :D

It seems that I have exhausted any appreciable help I may find from here so I'll just withhold any further comments unless someone who has worked with ceramics has anything to offer, or shares any info.

Thank you Guild members for your support.

[Paul P]

Darn it.... I did it again.......

I attacked the Guild out of reaction.......

Sorry Guild members. I really must admit that I do not know the organization well enough to even have an opinion of the Guild. I only know what I have been told and from my current communications. You would have thought I would have learned the first time....

Sorry Bill......

I apologize - once again. :(

[ProWallGuy]

Paul P said:

You know they have meds out for anxiety now that might help......

Where would a brother in St. Louis get some of these?

:cool:

[Eunice, PRS Reporter]

<<If I had a guild chapter here in Columbia I would join. I'm a single Dad and I don't have the leisure of jumping in the truck and running off to the closest meeting to associate. >>

OK Paul, I gotta take you up on this one. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, CANADA and if you're not sure where that is, go to the northern Montana botder and keep driving north for eight hours. There is no chapter, no meetings, nothing - but the Guild is the best investment in my career that I have made. The networking and resources are still available to At-Large members and the annual convention is where you will put names to faces and get to know all those you email. Some of the crustier sounding ones online aren't that way at all in person - heck, I hate the way I come across in email, but there it is. The Installer newsletter is great and the resource Directory can be invaluable. All for a measly $150.

In addition to this official Guild website there are a few others that many post on. APN (paperhanging@imagicom.com), Cliff Hayes site on Delphi (delphiforums.com/paperhanging) and Papernet (papernet@yahoogroups.com) The last one has a few too many off-topic posts and political rants for me, but there are some on that list who do not post on the others and they are darn good installers. All the lists also have searchable archives which is a real bonus when researching something. The depth of knowledge is amazing - if someone doesn't know they can often point the way toward someone who does.

Well, that's about all I know. Look forward to meeting you at the Orlando convention. :)

[Chris Murphy]

<< He has become much wiser with age and I now look forward to getting to work with him.>>

"When I was 14, my father was the dumbest person on the face of the earth. When I was 21, I couldn't believe how much he had learned in 7 short years."
Mark Twain

[Chris Nelson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by prowallguy
[B]Paul P said:


Where would a brother in St. Louis get some of these?

How about Maryland? :confused:

[Bill Archibald]

Good points Eunice,

There are many at-large members who benefit greatly from NGPP.

Tim, if you're still reading this thread, you may want to delve into this subject also

Another great at-larger who obviously has benefitted from the Guild is Belenda Comboy.

The list could extend for many pages.

Paul, before I joined the Guild just four years ago, I had the COMPLETELY wrong impression. I thought they were a bunch of ego driven elitist snobs who would force me to do things THEIR way. I couldn't have been further from the truth.

Through the two list serves that Eunice mentioned (APN and PaperNet) I realized:

A) Everyone was committed to sharing ideas techniques, and knowledge.

B) They were interested in knowing my tricks and procedures

C) They made me realize that many of my procedures were correct.

Through the Guild I have gained knowledge, confidence, and skill and have increased my love for this craft.

Also, I am not sure if I understood your words, "I understand the ego involoved"
Many times ego is used to mean an exaggerated sense of self-importance while at other times it means a confidence and satisfaction in oneself .

If you are using it in the latter definition I can agree. Those who have responded to you all have confidence. We need that in this business. But I do not know any of these folks to have that dreaded over exaggerated sense of self-importance. Don't worry, the Guild has a few of those egoists, but they haven't surfaced on this thread.

Paul, I would suggest that you further investigate the NGPP and would highly recommend investing the $150 yearly membership.

-Bill

[Chris Nelson]

Where would a brother in St. Louis get some of these?

How about Maryland?:rolleyes:

[ProWallGuy]

Yeah, I'm a member'at' large. I personally believe the guild has helped my business tenfold over the couple of years I've been a member.

You get out of it what you put in.

I've never been to a chapter meeting, there is no chapter in StL.
I do make the time to attend as many functions as possible. I make a point of going to the Midwest Regional Workshop in Wisconsin in Nov., recently attended a one day workshop in cleveland, and last year was my first NGPP convention. Everybody I've met has been nothing but nice, even if those east coast guys do drink funny tasting beer.

The networking/resources available have astounded me. Hanging on my own for 15 years, I assume I knew most everything about paperhanging. HAHA I was pretty close:D but I always learn something new every day. I ever had a question, there was always somebody to answer it, usually more than one.

I think Paul got a bad start because he happened to ask a question about a wallcovering that maybe less than 1% of all existing paperhangers have had the pleasure/displeasure of dealing with. any other paper, response would have been much better.

All in all, I think $150 annually is way too cheap for what I milk out of the guild every year.

[K.L. Conner]

I'll give you quick run down, I don't have much time tonight.

I have installed over 100 panels of the Silk Dynasty, and without
a doubt it is a different beast.

First, pour it out of the box and let it relax on it's own. Try
incorporating some heat into the process to speed this up
(sun, heater, or so forth). Once all of the panels have unrolled,
try shading them.

Second, paste the wall and the material, it has a one hour
relax time once pasted. As far as adhesive I use clay, but
remember they recommend clear.

Third, if I remember correctly the directions say do not use
a heat gun. That's great, but if you are turning outside
corners or have tricky molding, you better get one. Play
with a scrap piece to see how hot you can get it before you burn
the material.

Last, you are going to have to double-cut the seams, it's not
alot of fun but they don't look that bad.

Also, you get a touch-up kit, but I have had better luck matching my own color. Remember balance your sheets for the best
look. Gotta go
K.L. Conner

[Paul P]

KL,

THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!!!!!!!!

This is really all I needed... just a few words from someone who has battled the beast. The funny thing here is, the 3rd day I worked with a crew (15 years ago) we were running type 2 vinyl in some long halls with columns & a lot of turns. I grabbed the heat gun and was doing pretty well with it to get around a corner when the BOSS saw me and YELLED " OH MY GOD !!! He's got the heat gun!" To this day, it is a joke between us when we come together to do a commercial job.

Thank you very much for your reply.

Thank you all for your promoting the guild. I have it on my books to get aligned when the $$$$ are available. Right now it seems like Disney gets the wallet but be sure that I will be joining soon. My son would never forgive me if the Guild got paid and Mickey didn't. Hey, around these parts $150.00 is only a small (6 roll) bath with a little prep work. I bet you guys get more but I'm marketing myself right now..... ;)

I'm sure I'll get way more out than I'll put in, but hey.... you guys set the price.

OK, Chris Murphy..... I get the feeling you have something to do with this...... Thank You. :D

[Joseph Parker]

Hi Paul,

We've hung the product several times also and KL is right on the mark. You need to let the product relax as long as possible, if you don't the installation will be far more difficult.

In our case we have trimmed the material on our table and have double cut. I reccomend purchasing a stanley "quick change" utility knife. The utility knife blades give you plenty of cutting surface, use each blade for one cut only. A box of 100 blades is only 12 bucks at the depot.

Plan on having to address some of those seams after your finished. They supply you with touch up paint, we found in some areas a bit of caulk used first then applying the touch up paint to the caulk worked best.

We have also "ground up" the finish coating from some scrap and made a "mix" to put in where the finish may come loose.

The product looks difficult but really is not that bad to install, relax, relax, relax, is the key. Apply the paste generously and we clay sized the wall prior to installing.

Please feel free to call if I can be any help. 610-388-7749

Joe

[Paul P]

Thank you for the reply Joe.

The funny thing is that I just walked in from testing with the sample we have. From what I can tell, this beast can be tamed with the right tools and 'frame of mind'. It seems that I bought into all of the stories before I had a chance to see for myself.

The only thing that is still at issue is what to smooth it out with. I tried a plastic smoother and it did OK till I knocked out a chunk but it was just one big chunk and it went right back in place with a little V.O.V behind it. You couldn't tell it was ever away from the sheet after it set.

I'm going to be taking my camera with me when we do this job so I'll put some pics up on my server and post a link here so you guys can see what we are doing. This house is amazing. We are also doing some foils and some cloth in the same place in other rooms and halls. I think Christian Thee is also doing some work in this house. It should be fun to watch him work.

Christian Thee (http://www.christianthee.com/)

Thank you all again for your support. I feel a little silly now that I have some hands-on time with the material. Armed with the info gathered here and the chance to work with the material, I know we are taking on the job.

Best to all,

Paul Pabst

Added / Edit :

Joe, I just realized who I was being addressed by just now. (6 hours later) Thank you for your input. To have the Pres. of the Guild reply to my post is an honor. I would like to repeat my apology for my earlier post. My opinion of the Guild is nothing short of awe at this point. You guys are great. Expect my application soon. I can't wait to see what is available, that comes with the membership.

[Chuck Berkman, CP]

Paul,
Just a short one here. I too saw your original post and did nothing account I have no experience with this material. I was looking forward to the replies...guess you finally got a couple.
I did not realize how much I DID NOT know about the craft until I attended my first NGPP convention in 1986. Yes, we all have egos and attitudes...and we know where to turn when we have a question about the mundane or the exotic. The Guild helps keepme honest.
I wish you good luck with the upcoming job. I also hope to meet you some day...maybe you could tell me what you encountered and show me the material and how you handled it.
Thanks.
Chuck

[Paul P]

Originally posted by Joseph Parker
Hi Paul,

I reccomend purchasing a stanley "quick change" utility knife. The utility knife blades give you plenty of cutting surface, use each blade for one cut only. A box of 100 blades is only 12 bucks at the depot.


Joe

Just a note - I have always been a single sided razor blade kind of guy BUT... I got one of THESE (http://www.store.yahoo.com/olfablades/9043.html) to do a job with some real thick grass-cloth a while back. It came in handy today. The blades are like 1/2' wide and very sharp. I also use a plain old Olfa knife a lot when working with vinyls and a lot of "off the shelf" materials.

The Olfa may cost a little more, but it is just what I have gotten used to.
--------------------------------------

Thank you for the reply Chuck. I hope we get to meet as well. I will pass along anything I learn working with this material. To be honest, it looks like heck out of the tube. There isn't much you could do to make it look much worse. The sample we got, anyway. It does look good on the wall though if you have that LOOK in mind ....:rolleyes:

-----------------------------------------

One other thing.... I posted the link to Christian Thee's website and I thought I should give a little credit where it is due with his work. Christian does a lot of work on canvas in his shop and takes it to the site and has it hung there. He has a local guy named ( I know I'm going to spell this wrong...:( ) Robbie Reasoner hang all of his stuff. My hat is off to Rob, he does a great job with such one-of-a-kind materials. Can you imagine messing up a panel of that work.....:eek:

[Bill Archibald]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul P

The only thing that is still at issue is what to smooth it out with. I tried a plastic smoother and it did OK till I knocked out a chunk but it was just one big chunk and it went right back in place with a little V.O.V behind it.



Paul,

First, good choice of "Avatar", gives me a better insight to your sense of humor and irrevalence :D

Second, although I have no experience with Silk Dynasty, I have found a tool to smooth fragile material that could be damaged by sweeping with something "too aggressive". The tool? A foam roller. Yup, buy a cheap foam roller sleeve for a normal roller frame and roll the material smooth. Some people have found solid foam rollers, but when I needed one once, it could not be located, so a foam sleeve was used with great success. Now, a few are packed in my bag o' tricks.

As said, I have no experience with Silk Dynasty, so this is just a shot in the dark.

-Bill

[Paul P]

Originally posted by Bill Archibald


Paul,

First, good choice of "Avatar", gives me a better insight to your sense of humor and irrevalence :D

Second, although I have no experience with Silk Dynasty, I have found a tool to smooth fragile material that could be damaged by sweeping with something "too aggressive". The tool? A foam roller. Yup, buy a cheap foam roller sleeve for a normal roller frame and roll the material smooth. Some people have found solid foam rollers, but when I needed one once, it could not be located, so a foam sleeve was used with great success. Now, a few are packed in my bag o' tricks.

As said, I have no experience with Silk Dynasty, so this is just a shot in the dark.

-Bill

I use Curly as my avatar on almost all of the forums I visit. He has been with me a while now. :D The funny thing is, when I get on a forum with people outside of the States, they ask me if it is really a picture of me.....LOL

We are thinking along the same lines with the foam roller thing. It was one of the things I plan on trying when we get into the job. After this is all over we will have hung about 36 panels so I will probably be pretty well versed in ceramics after it is all said & done.

[Chris Nelson]

Paul says,

The funny thing is, when I get on a forum with people outside of the States, they ask me if it is really a picture of me.....LOL

I have been following this thread from the beginning and do not remember if you ever said where you are from?:confused:

[Bill Archibald]

Originally posted by Chris Nelson
Paul says,


The funny thing is, when I get on a forum with people outside of the States, they ask me if it is really a picture of me.....LOL


I have been following this thread from the beginning and do not remember if you ever said where you are from?:confused:

Chris,

If you notice on the left side of this page, under the person's name and avatar, it shows what info the poster has submitted in his/her profile. You are from Hagerstown, Maryland, I am from Norfolk, MA, and Paul is from Columbia, SC. .......

hope that helps
-Bill

[Chris Nelson]

A ha! I probably could have figured that out. Thanks.

[Paul P]

Originally posted by Bill Archibald


Chris,

Paul is from Columbia, SC. .......

Bill

That's right, I'm down south here. Ya'll gonna have to drop in sometime now, ya hear. I'll whip ya up some grits and some hush puppies along side a plate of chitlins. :eek:

[ProWallGuy]

If you are talking collards and fried corn bread, I'm on my way.

Or a ham hock in a crockpot w/blackeyed peas and a side of fried squash, I'll buy a plane ticket.

And don't forget the boiled p-nuts:D

[Bill Archibald]

Gosh Durn, I'm gettin hungry, all we got is Clam Chowda, Lobster, and Sam Adams :D (I'll dredge up a Bud for you, Tim, but it was probably brewed in Merrimack NH ;) )


With what you guys are servin, I wish the South had won :p

-Bill

[Paul P]

Originally posted by Bill Archibald
Gosh Durn, I'm gettin hungry, all we got is Clam Chowda, Lobster, and Sam Adams :D (I'll dredge up a Bud for you, Tim, but it was probably brewed in Merrimack NH ;) )


With what you guys are serving, I wish the South had won :p

-Bill

Tim's main entrée sounds a lot better than my chitlins ( I can't stand chitlins By-The-Way).

Bills sounds like a fantastic spread. I used to work for Bose and was in Framingham a lot. Going out to eat up there was an experience. I couldn't find "Sweet Tea" anywhere and people looked at me funny when I asked for ketchup for my French fries.

I forgot all about the boiled P-Nuts. The big joke at our Bose office was to go out and get a bag of boiled P-Nuts for the folks who came down from Mass. . Almost every one of them went home with a bottle of mustard base Barbecue sauce though.

I'll tell you one thing, I won't miss landing at Logan. They slam the planes on the ground. No such thing as a smooth landing there. That, and riding through "The Big Dig" work site. :(

[Bill Archibald]

Well now that we've gone WAY off topic....

Paul, hope you had the pleasure of eating at Legal Seafood's Framingham location (on the other side of Framingham on Rte 9 from Bose).

I am surprised anyone looked at you funny for the Catsup with your FF's, I thought that was standard - almost everywhere.

One (of the many) reason I do not fly anymore was one of those landings at O'Hare. I don't think Logan has the exclusive to hard drops. There are MANY MANY more reasons why not to use Logan, though. Living equi-distance between Boston and Providence, I advise visitors to use T F Green (Providence). One can disembark and be the 45 minutes to my door before they get out of the parking lot at Logan. However, if you are just visiting the city itself, try the water shuttle from Logan over to Rose Wharf. About a ten minute ride.

-Bill

[Joseph Parker]

By the way, we're looking at developing a section on this website with areas for difficult paper experiences and how we "tamed" them. Many of the silk dynasty papers have several ways to skin the cat.

Recently we hung the "copper patina" paper, well.....its really not paper but actual strips of copper, we found the instructions enclosed a good base to start with but after two strips we found a much better process.

It's reassuring to talk with someone who has hung them, just last night I got some advice from Chris Murphy on a mural we are hanging today and tomorrow.

Happy memorial day!

Joe

[Paul P]

Originally posted by Joseph Parker
By the way, we're looking at developing a section on this website with areas for difficult paper experiences and how we "tamed" them. Many of the silk dynasty papers have several ways to skin the cat.

Recently we hung the "copper patina" paper, well.....its really not paper but actual strips of copper, we found the instructions enclosed a good base to start with but after two strips we found a much better process.

It's reassuring to talk with someone who has hung them, just last night I got some advice from Chris Murphy on a mural we are hanging today and tomorrow.

Happy memorial day!

Joe

Great Idea !

I was going to suggest that you have like a "one time" help deal where guys like me can come and "try out" your resources and get the experience of what the Guild has to offer. I took a chance by posting here in the DIY section hoping that someone would interact with me. Had there been a "Try out our resource's" section I would have definitely gone there with this.

I know I'm sold on the value of the help here after my exchange.

You may catch a few more guild members this way as I was hesitant to post in the DIY section thinking I would not get the help I was looking for. I'm not a DIY'er I am a skilled hanger. There might also have been some ego involved in my hesitation to post where I did.

I am very glad I decided to give it a shot.

Just some thoughts...... ;)

[ProWallGuy]

You may catch a few more guild members this way as I was hesitant to post in the DIY section thinking I would not get the help I was looking for. I'm not a DIY'er I am a skilled hanger. There might also have been some ego involved in my hesitation to post where I did.
My thoughts exactly. I'm glad the name has been changed. A DIY wouldn't have a clue as to what is meant by a lot of things discussed here.

MHO

[K.L. Conner]

The only thing that is still at issue is what to smooth it out with. I tried a plastic smoother and it did OK till I knocked out a chunk

Smoothing this stuff out is almost as fun as doublecutting
the seams, so try this. I use a vinyl smoothing brush, and
you gotta get mean with it. I then drag the smoother
over it for pesky spots.

Seams as going to be a tough one to explain. Home
Depot has a commercial seam buster for about 3 bucks.
This is the one you guide with your index finger, typically
it has a red grip. Break the area that holds the tip of the blade
off. This gives you the full corner of the blade. Home Depot
also has a 1/8 metal yard stick( actually it's 48"), if you rest
the side of the red plastic grip on the yardstick the corner of
the blade is exactly the amount of blade you need to go
through two layers of the material. In my opinion the
width of the utility knife blade is a little wide.

K.L.

[Paul P]

Originally posted by K.L. Conner
The only thing that is still at issue is what to smooth it out with. I tried a plastic smoother and it did OK till I knocked out a chunk

Smoothing this stuff out is almost as fun as double cutting
the seams, so try this. I use a vinyl smoothing brush, and
you gotta get mean with it. I then drag the smoother
over it for pesky spots.

Seams as going to be a tough one to explain. Home
Depot has a commercial seam buster for about 3 bucks.
This is the one you guide with your index finger, typically
it has a red grip. Break the area that holds the tip of the blade
off. This gives you the full corner of the blade. Home Depot
also has a 1/8 metal yard stick( actually it's 48"), if you rest
the side of the red plastic grip on the yardstick the corner of
the blade is exactly the amount of blade you need to go
through two layers of the material. In my opinion the
width of the utility knife blade is a little wide.

K.L.

Thanks for the tips on the brush. Sounds like another one to try on the first couple of sheets till we get a system down.

As for double cuts, to tell you the truth we laid it out on the table and dry cut the edges. Just measured out from the pattern in the center to find the line and chopped away. I should let you know that it was about 90 Deg. outside and we were in a garage where it may have been 85 Deg ambient. The material cut pretty well. We pasted the material with clay and let it sit for about 20 mins. Pasted it again and then went and pasted the wall. All in all we let it relax about 45 - 50 minutes. Stuck it up there and went through the process with the second sheet. It seamed very nicely. We also picked a place where we could run an inside corner and an outside corner. It all went pretty well. I didn't think we were going to get it to push around very well but it did. We didn't even try the double cut because the dry cut worked so well.

Thank you again K.L. for your interest in sharing your method with me.

[Chris Murphy]

I'll soon have pictures of a Patina (copper sheets) job I did. John Little & Doug Berry hung some on a coffered ceiling, and had some good tips. Best one was that where the material curled up, bend it back the other way and press down. Otherwise the metal wouldn't lay down.
Joe, you need to get access to Dynamite 111 & 433 to experience the thrill of full-strength clay pastes. I'll have Frank N. bring some to Orlando & demonstrate it on the practice walls. You'll never go back to others, I guarantee it.
Also on my site is a job that I did in Columbia (speaking of it) on 12/02 with KL that I thought went stunningly well but that I had to hire a lawyer to get paid. Added written content is being added as we speak.
The jobs featured on the site are meant to show customers possibilities, not intimidate other hangers. See, I feel that 90% of hanging is science: results can be replicated by following the same steps (but following them to the letter). Minute variations in technique can lead to huge differences in results, and the "why" of that may not be apparent. That's why I don't always give advice on specific materials to those whose methods I don't know. But I do feel that anything I hang can be hung by anyone else, and vice versa. The art of hanging comes in in the engineering (placement, etc.) and finishing touches (attention to details, covering plates, etc.). Do them enough, they become "science," too.

Murph

http://www.ScenicHanger.com

[HangingInThere]

Well, I realize this thread is a bit ancient, but it certainly piqued my curiosity. Although I've hung my fair share of Silk Dynasty, regretably, I've not had the "unique pleasure" of ever having to deal with the ceramics. :cry:

Paul's description of the method he used left out some important details which my "inquiring mind wants to know." :help:

Here's what I gather went down: (1) The detail boxes on the walls were just slightly less in width than two panels/drops. (2) This resulted in one centrally located seam which was a butt-seam set up by table trimming the material dry. (3) Edge trimming against the outside edge of the detail box moulding??

{aside} I'd looked at the Silk Dynasty copper "Patina" while at the International Market Square here in Minneapolis earlier than the forementioned install, but never realized it was on actual copper sheets...way cool! I thought at that time, and still do, the stuff is georgeous!

The other day I decided to take a gander at the ceramics while waiting in the showroom at the Hirshfields Design Center, just to become familiar with the beast, after reading this thread. This got me to thinking...

So, if my understanding is correct, the outside edges of the detail boxes were where the product was trimmed to the moulding?? Rather than, table trimming the outside edges to butt against the detail box mouldings and then double-cutting the resulting overlap in the center.

If this is correct, what procedure was used for trimming the product to the detail box moulding?? I'm under the impression that the product's mil thickness would not allow for it to be pressed from wall to moulding in a decent 90 to trim? Also, did the ceramic actually cut cleanly, or did it "fracture" resulting in a more jagged edge??

Hopefully, Paul is still subscribed to the thread...or, K.L. who others here have intimated as Carson's replacement for "Carnac The Magnificent," :rolleyes: knows whereof I speak...probably, before I ever even considered posting this... :bow: :D might chime in!