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Thread: Wallpaper removal disaster

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    NGPP Member gadams's Avatar
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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    While we are on the topic of primers,maybe someone could chime in on Swing.It's a product I am not familiar with, that has been mentioned by a few ,whose opinions I respect.Is it available under different names on the east coast?What are it's attributes?I would like to give it a try.Forgive me if I am asking a question that has been asked a million times or maybe even asked by me before but the old post 70's memory banks can bring it up on the screen.
    Guy Adams

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    NGPP Member Chris Nelson's Avatar
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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    You will get more answers, but Swing is a great wall covering primer, it is just somewhat hard to get, even here on the East coast, unless you are buying a pallet , shipping costs can be prohibitive.

    http://www.swingpaints.com/a_product..._wallpaper.htm

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    NGPP Member gadams's Avatar
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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Drys in 20 minutes? There's the first good reason to use it.Can you really hang over it that soon?
    Guy Adams

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Swing is the cat's a$$, that's all you need to know. Getting it is a pain in my a$$, though, so I buy a few cases just so I don't have to worry about it for a long time. To my knowledge, they don't make it for any other label, although other companies have had similar products .

    I would say the 15 minute dry claim is a wee bit of a stretch, unless you're rolling it on with a weenie roller very thin, in the summer. Besides, I like rolling any primer on very heavy, and that increases the dry time even with a box fan working on it. The one time I do like it thin is over a glossy finish.

    I still use Draw Tite, and I'm getting ready to make the trip to Scotch in a few minutes to stock up, but Prep Coat has become the primer I use more these days. It's just a unique product, and paper just hangs so well over it. Draw Tite is my preference on porous surfaces, or bare mud, though, although I have spot primed with swing.

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    Active Member Chris Murphy's Avatar
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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by gadams View Post
    While we are on the topic of primers,maybe someone could chime in on Swing.It's a product I am not familiar with, that has been mentioned by a few ,whose opinions I respect.Is it available under different names on the east coast?What are it's attributes?I would like to give it a try.Forgive me if I am asking a question that has been asked a million times or maybe even asked by me before but the old post 70's memory banks can bring it up on the screen.
    I think they were the first water-based wallcovering primer that was worth a hill o' beans. Label used to say "Prep Coat," multi-colored yellow, purple, green label of fleur-de-lis, I think? Product dries slightly green/blue. It was out by the early '70's, sold at the shop where I was first exposed to wallpaper as a business. I used it back when I started, in the late '70's.
    It works by having silica, which provides tooth. It doesn't have any 'hide' properties whatever. Holds up for stripping. Not to be confused with Benny Moore's junk wall-preps of the past. It's possible Rosing has a quart can on their shelves; they never throw out anything they think will sell eventually.
    Bob Kelly's paper-hangings.com site should have back issues of Master Paperhanger magazine; he did an interview with one of the family in one of them.
    Chris Murphy
    ScenicHanger.com

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    In a sense they still sell products like that but I remember those types of items , all those products did were even the porosity of walls and give some bite . I remember many a wall cover removal situation when that type of product was used on walls that removal was imposable do to zero wall protection and in my opinion after applied installers think it seems dry but wet paste will be liquefying the prep coat and re-drying as a more water proof paste which is some thing totally not desired

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    Active Member Chris Murphy's Avatar
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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by fine paper hang View Post
    In a sense they still sell products like that but I remember that item , all those products did were even the porosity of walls and give some bite . I remember many a wall cover removal situation when that type of product was used on walls that removal was imposable do to zero wall protection and in my opinion after applied installers think it seems dry but wet paste will be liquefying the prep coat and re-drying as a more water proof paste which is some thing totally not desired
    Not to be confused with Benny Moore's junk wall-preps of the past.
    Chris Murphy
    ScenicHanger.com

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    That is why I asked the question,about the dry time,it would be great to have something that's ready to hang on in 30 mins. As we all know dry to touch is something totally different than being dry enough to hang.I have had the of experience with my painters, painting over the previous coat ,too soon reactivating that coat.It can make a mess out of the finish.The same thing happens when the paste hits the not fully dried primer,as FPH states the paste and primer become one.It can really make removing a problem not to mention what it can do to your seams as it drys.If I am using a dark primer I usually wait longer than the dry time states.
    Guy Adams

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    Resistance is Futile, you will be assimilated Bill Archibald's Avatar
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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Guy,

    Like Jeff E. I too use Swing Prep Coat just about exclusively (and like he, agree that D-T or Gardz with Swing on top makes for a WONDERFUL surface).

    prm_wallpaper_prep_fr.jpg


    Now, the front of the can states:

    "S»CHE EN 20 MINUTES"

    ooops, sorry. Wrong front of the can

    "DRIES IN 20 MINUTES"

    but instructions on the side say,

    "Dry Time Allow 2 hours under normal conditions
    before hanging wallcovering"


    Although many people do hang after that twenty minutes, I avoid it. I prefer the 2 hours but will hang at one hour if absolutely necessary. In small powder rooms, first thing I do is apply it to the first wall I will hang. Then the rest of the room, and then bring the rest of my equipment in and set up.

    I have had great success with this product as have many here in Boston. We go through enough of it that two or three local stores are willing to carry it. The last shipment I "encouraged" a local S-W to obtain cost us $17 per gallon.

    I have noticed on Amazon that one can buy it for $23 a gallon before shipping. OUCH!

    http://www.amazon.com/Pack-Wallpaper...5603035&sr=8-1

    This product does confuse me. If some drips on woodwork, it CAN be removed relatively easily with a damp mifty two days later. You wet it, let it sit for a few minutes, and them wipe (somewhat vigorously) off. To me this indicates it rewets easily, but no one has ever reported the typical problems associated with prep coat rewetting.

    -Bill

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    I don't necessarily wait two hours to hang over it because I use a box fan to speed things along. And I decide which wall I'm starting on and prime that wall first. That way I am able to dry that wall while everything else is getting done. It's pretty close to 2 hours at that point, and it's drier than it would've been on its own accord.

    When I think of prepping a wall, the last thing I want my wallpaper sticking to is a painted surface with a thin film of primer on it. Rather, I want it to be a primed surface that has totally saturated a painted surface. I'm no chemist, but I'm hoping the less ISN'T more theory holds water. As I said, glossy surfaces are the exception, where less IS more.

    I am also baffled that you can wet and scratch this stuff off, but if you see how wet you have to get it, and how much effort it takes, you would feel comfortable that it's not going to be a problem with the paste loosening it. It takes a sharp object to lift it, like a finger nail, and wallpaper pulling on it when it's drying isn't going to be able to lift it.

    Currently I'm paying a large commercial wallcovering contractor about $21 a gallon to hook me up with 40 gallons at a time. I sell some to folks, and keep the rest. This guy buys a pallet direct from Swing, which is pretty much what you have to do for them to want to bother with you directly.

    I prepped a bathroom last fall with it, and hung a paper over it with 234. The people hated the paper and had me strip it off a month ago. I was interested to see how it would go, because the walls were flat paint. The prep coat gave me no problems whatsoever, and the paper stripped off clean. I think any problems folks are reporting involve the knock off prep coats that have the same coloring. This is an exceptional product.

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    JE is likely correct about knock offs ,so many types of clear finish preps out there but they differ and have different variables, I was wondering have other paper men when they may hang a dark paper that could shrink a bit . Figure seam placement and prime a color the same as paper where seams would land and if it shrinks a bit at least it wont show to bad . Does Swing help prevent shrinkage as well as say R35 and other sticky type preps ? Since I like using R35 with dark pre pasted paper using the pre seam placement dark priming technique / not sure if I invented it but no body told me about it I remember hanging a black pre pasted paper a snap to hang and came back the next day and wham seam shrinkage. White oil primer showing O happy days O happy days . At the U S school I went to they said to over lap a teeny amt to compensate but I never liked the feel of that method , whatís your thoughts?

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    My analogy on striping the walls where the seams go: It's like pulling an old golf ball out of your bag when you reach a par 3 over water. This in contrast to using the good ball you were doing so well with prior. You're anticipating failure, my good man, and my dad always pulled this psychological cop out when I played with him. Drove me nuts.

    Here's how to combat shrinkage at the seams:
    1) Proper prep with a wallcovering prep or primer. Swing PC is great for this.
    2) Don't use too much paste.
    3) Don't over work the paper, or stretch it. Using a good sweep will help this.

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    Resistance is Futile, you will be assimilated Bill Archibald's Avatar
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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Jeff,

    When you stripped that room, what was the condition of the SPC (Swing Prep Coat) ? Was it "as good as new" not needing a recoat? Did it wash/scrape off with the paper?

    And I assume no PSSS (peeling sunburn skin syndrome)

    inquiring minds.

    -Bill

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Bill,

    The walls were good to go at least another round as far as I could tell.

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    Re: Wallpaper removal disaster

    Sounds like the fast dry aspect,the small amount of tint ( to let you know where you've already been,wish Gardz would add some) and the silica ( flattening agent,that gives tooth and in turn seam grip) are good enough reasons to try not to mention the recommendation namelist.Oh yea ,spare gallon anyone.I thought one of the Benny Moore Wall Grip products was okay.Maybe Wall Grip 3 can't really remember.Only used it a few times.
    Guy Adams

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