New Home page

[HangingInThere]

Carolyn, I believe you are on to something. Activity on the NGPP forums has been stagnant since the removal of Bill as co-moderator and Tim's attention seems to be directed elsewhere. However, I just noticed that Tim is yet listed as a moderator... Maybe it's just the summer slump...

Then again, I suspect that folks are not finding a direct link to the NGPP forums from the Home Page as it is now designed. They may get here if they Google a topic, but it is not as clear as it was before the Home Page redesign.

[Elsie Kapteina]

Thank you all for your input. First, let me say, it was one of the hardest things I had to do, was to relieve Bill Archibald of his leadership duties. The events that led to that decision were not personal, but business. There is a certain decorum that is the responsibility of anyone in a leadership position.

In a volunteer organization, it is extremely hard to have members commit the time and expertise to such a large undertaking as a web site. Bill, Gary, Tim, Bill Hock, Jim, all put in an enoromus amount of time in reviewing the old web site. They came up with many of the ideas tht were incorporated into this present look. We are extremely grateful to these men.

The Web Site proposals were reviewed by your elected Board. Once a vote was taken on which site would serve our community, the package was sent on to a web development company. There were still some unanswered questions, but time was ticking away.

Due to the circumstances revolving around the Web Committee, I took the bold step of stating "put it up". Let us build from where we are, make the changes and incorporate new ideas as they presented themselves.

We will have committeee chairs review their sites; we have asked our industry partners to send in a short bio for thier sites. We still have under investigation the best solution to "finding a paperhanger" that will be more acceptable to all members. We will not meet everyone's needs; but we are sure trying.

We are interested in your feedback. We value your opinions and we are listening. We read "negative feedback" as not being on course. So, let's look at it as "

[Elsie Kapteina]

(sorry abou that)so, let's look at it as improvement opportunities. Right now, we are not at a perfect 10 --- but what would it take to make it a perfect 10? e

[Chris Murphy]

Thanks for your reply. I'm not a web designer, so I can't answer what "perfect 10" would be. But I can express what I don't like about it:
-generic pictures of DIY'ers: this is completely out of place on a trade's site. There are plenty of pictures of Guild hangers, of workshops, of conventions, etc.
-the old site had a 'button' for this BB; why that isn't on thee is beyond me, as it is one of the most visited areas of the site.

No, wait a minute- I'm not going to waste my time picking through the site as is; I'll instead ask the question, why the change? The old home page looked a lot better than the one up now, and functioned better (from this member's use and perspective). All that needed to be done was to make it so that the content was more easily changed, or the person in charge of it was made to be more responsive to change requests. I thought it strange that, after the job pictures seemed to be changed with some regularity, the last set stayed up for over a year. Entries- like that silly map project- also stayed the same. Other items stayed well past the date of the event, making it look like no one (with power over the site) was paying attention. From what I know, the Web Committee was paying attention, so the problem(s) lay squarely on those who had charge over it. That, to me (a -so far- sentient being) says, Change the people or procedures running it. It does not say, again, to me, Go to a more generic and harder to navigate layout.

[Parodi]

When I was asked to join the web site committee two years ago I got a familiar sinking feeling. As most people who are long time members of the NGPP know, No good deed goes unpunished in the Guild. I was also on the web committee previous to the last one with Gail Cox, Michael Keith, Walter Green and Bill. I said ‘yes’ this time because I happen to like Bill and greatly enjoyed working with him on this new site. (BTW this thread has the wrong title--it is not a new "home page" it is an entire new website.)

A few of you know that in 2005, due to the steady deline in the wallpapering industry, I learned the technical aspects of graphic and web design and have done quite well catering to all sorts of small businesses. My sites will not win any design awards but one thing I do quite well for my web clients is to make their sites come up in search engines in local searches for all sorts of criteria..

When I first came to the nggp.org site two years ago I looked at the keyword content and tracking stats, I shook my head, and saw that it was no accident that most of the visitors coming to our site were looking for screen savers and computer “wallpaper”---not a contractor to install something. So I wrote a workable blurb, rich in important keywords for searchers and we put it on the old home page. Did you know that before this blurb was included we came up in a search for “paperhangers organization” but we did not appear in a Google search for

organization of wallcovering installers
or
wallcovering installers organization
or
association of wallcovering installers
or
installers of scenic murals
or
installer for untrimmed wallpaper

But we do now. Or rather, we did. Now despite much insistence by Bill, myself and the whole committee in submitting our wants for the new site--- TO KEEP THE BLURB—it has inexplicably been omitted from the site.

One might ask, “Why did we need a new site anyway.” The problem, as the whole committee saw it, was that the old home page rambled on and on with superfluous items and events that were not updated. I opined that it was like a refrigerator with a 5 year old in the house where every picture the kid ever drew is scotch taped to the damn thing and looks cluttered. It was the web committee‘s position that the entry to the site should be uncluttered and sleek. It should be there to immediately divert people to three subsections: One for consumers, one for members and one for industry folks. We specified to our web developer that this entry page should not require anyone to scroll down or be cluttered with anything other than the 3 sub-entries, the blurb to weed out the screen saver people and include the “Find a paperhanger’ for those in a hurry. Now we don’t have the blurb so we will soon go back to the screen saver search hits. We still have upcoming events on the entry page which, due to past sloth by our web masters, I surmise will likely collect dust and still show events that took place 2 months ago. We also have advertising there which was not requested and belongs deeper in the web site---our entryway should be about US, not other corporations.

We had also requested a “feed” be placed in the member section which would scroll upcoming events. This feed was to have its source from off site and be controlled by the web committee so that we could make instant updates about events and members. This way, if a member, god forbid died or was injured, or was wiped out in a flood or tornado, Bill or I could flash the news and pertinent information instantly to the site and not wait for the foot dragging of our web masters. But now we have the exact same approach as the old site where there is little possibility to get them to act with haste.

Bill and I did not want DIY anything in the consumer section. What professional site for electricians or plumbers do you know that provides ANY DIY info? Yet there it is.

The whole committee was adamant about having an improved Find a Paperhanger function similar to “store locators” found on other commercial sites like Wal Mart and Sears. There had been so many complaints from members about the poor functionality with the old Find a Paperhanger. I still don’t understand why we put associates in there---people are supposed to be finding paperhangers to hang paper, not people who sell paste. BTW we were charged an itemized $525 to develop a “full featured public search database” and what we have at present is the same flawed Find a Paperhanger.

When I look at this new website and compare it to the detailed requests made by the web committee about the general new direction it should take,:
http://www.parodipalace.com/Website_...al_3-26-10.pdf
I am left scratching my head wondering what the purpose of the web committee is.

So to sum up, what we have here is a new site that that is almost indistinguishable in function from our old site. Yes, it is a little more streamlined, but the strictures about keeping the home page uncluttered were completely ignored by our web masters. I will lay odds that within a year the new home page will be littered with all sorts of silly items which detract from its new cleaner look. If I were signing the check to Martin Solutions they would be waiting for final payment and would not get it until they give us what we asked for and deliver what they charged us for.

[Chris Murphy]

Let me put my consternation this way: If Archibald, Parodi and I agree strongly on something, either it's the end of the world or action needs to be taken, immediately.

[Bill Archibald]

Ain't that the truth, Chris

Now that the recently disbanned web committee proposal has been made accessible, let me say that the BOD was shown this and it was APPROVED. In order to better understand how this organization really does work, I ask that all read through it and then compare how AMC/Martin Solutions carried out the approved proposal of a duly appointed MEMBER committee. Again, remember, this proposal had FULL APPROVAL of the BOD.

Let me praise the committee. It was a highly diverse, intelligent, group of dedicated members who did not always agree. We had many differences. BUT we all had respect for each other and the ability to LISTEN and come to consensus that would BEST SERVE the members of the NGPP. It was perhaps one of the most enjoyable experiences in my ten short years of belonging to the NGPP. I really thought we were developing something that would serve us all well. Perhaps that's why I did not mind the HUNDREDS of hours I spent researching, discussing, developing, and writing.

One example: Jim mentioned his news widget. This was an item that I initially could not get behind because I did not understand how it would function. But Parodi retained ungodly patience and fully explained how it was going to work and the purpose it was to fullfil. I came around once I understood. And as a side point, our President, Elsie, fully embraced this feature when it was first proposed by Parodi. Yet where is it ?

Our goal was to have the Internet home of the National Guild of Professional Paperhangers SERVE THE MEMBERS. It was to reduce the clutter and hoarding of items on the home page (and we all know how familiar I am with hoarding). Yet the new site is now just a cleaned up refrigerator ready for the "art". But anyway, read that link Jim posted (it IS long) and then cast your vote as to your preference of what YOU as a PROFESSIONAL PAPERHANGER and MEMBER of the NGPP want to represent and serve YOU.

Our proposal was NOT perfect, and we were more than ready to work WITH professional web designers to make this site hip, sleek, and functional. A good combination of PROFESSIONAL PAPERHANGING needs and technical tricks known by some savvy web technicians.

[Chris Murphy]

OK, so the world is ending, no need to worry about the bills anymore. Will the schedule of that event be updated on the Home page?

[Parodi]

Bill, You keep saying that the site should serve its "members." Yet Martin Solutions used the word "installers" on the home page entryway instead of members even though members was clearly written in the proposal. I suppose they could have given the entry a little more flavor by using the term "workers", but "workers" sounds so union or even Soviet...so I guess we should be grateful they chose "installers" against our wishes. As I recall we submitted the proposal, they sent us three mockups which used the term "Installers" instead of "members" at that time. We said no to Installers use members, Gary Lucas agreed, yet there it is on the home page.



(from the final web committee proposal regarding the home page)...We do not want to distract
our visitors with too many choices. Those choices will be “Gallery” (public), “Wallpaper
Forum” (bulletin board), “Find a Paperhanger”, “Contact NGPP”.

How much clearer can that be? Martin Solutions now has the BB button within the members... I mean Installers section and that section is password protected. Since the BB is open to non-members how are they supposed to get there now when that section of the site is password protected with the member password?

[Chris Murphy]

Jim, has it occurred to you that if we ask so many questions it may take months, maybe years, for the assembly of appropriate committees to study those questions, and get back to us? And, since no one- obviously- now pays any attention to what NGPP committees say or do, then we will have wait some more, again. Fellas, maybe we should just drop the whole thing and and just show up and pay money, when asked.

[Parodi]

Jim, has it occurred to you that if we ask so many questions it may take months, maybe years, for the assembly of appropriate committees to study those questions, and get back to us? And, since no one- obviously- now pays any attention to what NGPP committees say or do, then we will have wait some more, again. Fellas, maybe we should just drop the whole thing and and just show up and pay money, when asked.

Yes maybe we should just bend over when asked...it's so much easier. My big issue though is the Find a Paperhanger. If Bill recalls, I pressed Gail Cox to come up with a workable way to allow consumers to "find a paperhanger" during our tenure at that time. Gail did all the work on that but I have always thought that it is the most important function of the site. I believe the number was around 9000 consumers entered the site through the FAP page per year. Unfortunately I can't check the exact number because I am locked out of the new site so the stats are closed to me. That's OK though...I'm only the vice chair and I'm sure I'll get the keys to the site with haste. BTW, Martin Solutions never sent an email out to the committee to announce that they launched the new site either. Strange indeed.

[Tim Bodine]

Carolyn, I believe you are on to something. Activity on the NGPP forums has been stagnant since the removal of Bill as co-moderator and Tim's attention seems to be directed elsewhere. However, I just noticed that Tim is yet listed as a moderator... Maybe it's just the summer slump...

Then again, I suspect that folks are not finding a direct link to the NGPP forums from the Home Page as it is now designed. They may get here if they Google a topic, but it is not as clear as it was before the Home Page redesign.

Just an FYI, I asked to be removed from the Web Committee, but volunteered to still be a moderator here as I check in (almost) daily, and remove spammers as they sign up. You don't really see me much as I just haven't posted per say, but do check in often and read. Work and family has just kept me quite busy this year. And I'm often out of town and sometimes its a PITA to log in if I'm experiencing a slow connection.

[Tim Bodine]

Archibald, Parodi and I agree strongly on something

I bet that just to type it made you throw up in your mouth a little bit.

OK, so the world is ending, no need to worry about the bills anymore. Will the schedule of that event be updated on the Home page?

I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Bill Archibald]

I would avise everyone to view their "Membership Listing"
http://www.ngpp.org/members/directory_update.php

if it is anything like mine, it may need some "tweaking"

My land line was listed as my Fax (I have no fax), my e-address listed as my website, my region was "Region", my services offered were "Installations - NO"; "Painting - NO"; "Faux Finish - NO", my" Distance Will Work from Base: 100-250 - NO; 251-500 - NO; Anywhere - YES ", "percentage of business: Residential - Northeast; Commercial - 100%, Stripping - 0%" (Truth - I do not do commercial and do lots of stripping), "Original Date Joined: 225.00", Profile: B; N; O; Q; S; U; V; W; Z; BB; DD; GG; KK; LL; MM; D3; D6

I have this sneaky feeling we will be told that there are some minor glitches that will be ironed out soon. Wouldn't YOU as a PROFESSIONAL love to hack up a job, get paid, and tell your customer that their living room is a work in progress and it should be up and looking good in the next few months?

[Chris Murphy]

Originally Posted by Chris Murphy
Archibald, Parodi and I agree strongly on something





I bet that just to type it made you throw up in your mouth a little bit.

Left a stain on my shirt, like I chew tobacco.

Originally Posted by Chris Murphy
OK, so the world is ending, no need to worry about the bills anymore. Will the schedule of that event be updated on the Home page?




I wouldn't hold your breath.

See above; I may have to let loose in a bit.